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  #1  
Old 10-06-2009, 11:30 PM
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Default Rand will die. (new faction!)

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Quote:
Originally Posted by creed
We believe that Rand will die. He might possibly be resurrected somehow, but according to Min (Alivia will 'help' him die) and the Aelfinn (to live you must die), he will die. Rand faking his death does not count. Moridin dying in Rand's body does not count. Lews Therin 'dying' does not count.
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  #2  
Old 10-06-2009, 11:47 PM
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IMO the question isn't whether Rand will live or die. It's "Which of the next three books will he die in?" My money is on A Memory of Light.
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Last edited by Wunderwaffe; 10-06-2009 at 11:49 PM.
  #3  
Old 10-06-2009, 11:48 PM
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I'm banking on either early book 14 or the very end of book 13. Would be a nice cliffhanger, but I doubt they'll get that brave with the readership, lol.
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  #4  
Old 10-07-2009, 12:32 AM
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I like your factions Terez. I only recently started joining them but as of yet yours are the only ones I have applied for.

As for Rand dying, I'm banking on somewhere near the middle to end of book 14. I think he'll die in the last battle, all hope will be lost, then he'll somehow come back and snack victory from the claws of defeat. That or his death somehow seals the victory and then he comes back to live happily ever after.
  #5  
Old 10-07-2009, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Wind
I like your factions Terez. I only recently started joining them but as of yet yours are the only ones I have applied for.
Yay! Yeah, I noticed you joining a few. You should be admitted to all of them now.


I tried to get Callie to join last night, but he's already got a faction that's similar. He just doesn't allow for the possibility of resurrection, or Rand returning to the series in any way. I told him I was trying to unite everyone against the 'Lews Therin will die' people and such! He still wouldn't join though.
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  #6  
Old 10-07-2009, 10:12 AM
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Yay Terez factions! I finally joined the Moiraine will rule Cairhien one as well.

Of course Rand will die. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. It's been prophesized how many times in how many different forms? You can't fulfill something of this magnitude on a technicality, i.e. Morridin died in his body, LTT died instead, etc. Rand, to quote The Munchkins, will be "really most sincerely dead."

Now. Rand coming back somehow, absolutely possible. What's the point of a messiah myth if there's no resurrection involved?
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  #7  
Old 10-07-2009, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez
I tried to get Callie to join last night, but he's already got a faction that's similar. He just doesn't allow for the possibility of resurrection, or Rand returning to the series in any way. I told him I was trying to unite everyone against the 'Lews Therin will die' people and such! He still wouldn't join though.
Is he active again with the imminent release of the new book?

~hopeful expression~

It seems like the discussion was always "livelier" when he was around. And in my opinion "livelier" is definitely better.
  #8  
Old 10-07-2009, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bowlwoman
Yay Terez factions! I finally joined the Moiraine will rule Cairhien one as well.
Yes, I saw! Yay!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bowlwoman
Now. Rand coming back somehow, absolutely possible. What's the point of a messiah myth if there's no resurrection involved?
Well, Jesus was in his immortal body when he came back from the dead, and I have a feeling that Rand will be too (the Horn).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Machin Shin
Is he active again with the imminent release of the new book?

~hopeful expression~

It seems like the discussion was always "livelier" when he was around. And in my opinion "livelier" is definitely better.
He posted in the prologue thread once. I imagine he'll post at least once or twice after the book comes out. He's adamant about not wanting to be a regular Theorylander any more, though.
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  #9  
Old 10-07-2009, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez
He posted in the prologue thread once. I imagine he'll post at least once or twice after the book comes out. He's adamant about not wanting to be a regular Theorylander any more, though.
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  #10  
Old 10-07-2009, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez
Well, Jesus was in his immortal body when he came back from the dead, and I have a feeling that Rand will be too (the Horn).
I wonder if he'll get kicked out of T'A'R in the flesh la Birgitte. Not as LTT, not as Rand, but as the physical embodiment of the metaphysical Dragon spirit. We know it can be done, since we've already seen it.

Maybe that's why Avi's kids will be strange, because they'll look like the Dragon, not Rand or LTT or Morridin.
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  #11  
Old 10-07-2009, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bowlwoman
I wonder if he'll get kicked out of T'A'R in the flesh la Birgitte. Not as LTT, not as Rand, but as the physical embodiment of the metaphysical Dragon spirit. We know it can be done, since we've already seen it.
Well, it appears as though the Heroes appear in Tel'aran'rhiod as they appeared in their last incarnation, so when Rand goes there, he'll look like Rand. But I doubt he'll be ripped out like Birgitte was.
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  #12  
Old 10-07-2009, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez
Well, it appears as though the Heroes appear in Tel'aran'rhiod as they appeared in their last incarnation, so when Rand goes there, he'll look like Rand. But I doubt he'll be ripped out like Birgitte was.
I'm not sure that "are known as" is the same as "look like."

I'm pretty sure that Birgitte didn't really have a bow made of silver and fire arrows made of solid silver in her last incarnation, because she would have been about as dangerous as a four-year-old throwing rocks if she did.
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  #13  
Old 10-07-2009, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bowlwoman
I wonder if he'll get kicked out of T'A'R in the flesh la Birgitte.
Interesting idea. I like it. I will disagree with Terez here (oh dear gods, I actually SAID IT) and say I can see this happening.

Start a faction BW.
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  #14  
Old 10-07-2009, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weird Harold
I'm not sure that "are known as" is the same as "look like."

I'm pretty sure that Birgitte didn't really have a bow made of silver and fire arrows made of solid silver in her last incarnation, because she would have been about as dangerous as a four-year-old throwing rocks if she did.
I'm talking about her appearance, not her accessories. Hawkwing was recognized by his appearance, so it's the logical assumption to make.

@Saucey - you'll have to start the faction, cause you have to be an Elder to make one. And you have a premium account, which you also need.
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  #15  
Old 10-07-2009, 02:38 PM
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When Birgitte was ripped out was her connection to the wheel cut? I always figured it was, otherwise what would the point of ripping her out be? She would go straight back into TAR after she died, ready to be spun out in a few years. Kind of a pointless gesture by Moggy don't you think?

I kind of figured that she would need to perform some spectacular heroics during the last battle to be rebound by the wheel.

If this theory holds true then ripping out Rand after TG could be disastrous because he's already done his appointed task. There would be no spectacular heroics left to perform by which he could rebind himself to the wheel.

I don't think that ripping him out like Birgitte will happen.
  #16  
Old 10-07-2009, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creed
We believe that Rand will die. He might possibly be resurrected somehow, but according to Min (Alivia will 'help' him die) and the Aelfinn (to live you must die), he will die. Rand faking his death does not count. Moridin dying in Rand's body does not count. Lews Therin 'dying' does not count.
The bold part is the biggest sticking point for me.
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  #17  
Old 10-07-2009, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Wind
If this theory holds true then ripping out Rand after TG could be disastrous because he's already done his appointed task. There would be no spectacular heroics left to perform by which he could rebind himself to the wheel.

I don't think that ripping him out like Birgitte will happen.
That's the sweetness of the ending...Rand would be able to live the quiet, happy life he always thought he would have and NOT be tied as a hero. LTT is the Hero who is/was/will be tied to the Wheel, Rand is a woolbrained sheepherder.

Birgitte, on the other hand, has and probably will continue to perform "spectacular heroics" in THIS life, the life AFTER being ripped out, so she could easily find herself becoming a Hero all over again, for brand spanking new reasons.

Rand will have options: he can live and die quietly and be reborn as everyone else is in the normal cycle, or he can be spectacular as RAND and become a hero himself instead of the DRAGON.

Suddenly I realize I am treading thin ice here...getting close to involved in the Rand/LTT two souls arguments which I avoid like the plague.

BLAH. DAMN YOU ALL!
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  #18  
Old 10-07-2009, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SauceyBlueConfetti
Interesting idea. I like it. I will disagree with Terez here (oh dear gods, I actually SAID IT) and say I can see this happening.

Start a faction BW.
I can't, I'm only a Youngling. If you start it I'll support you. I want props, though.
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  #19  
Old 10-07-2009, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SauceyBlueConfetti
That's the sweetness of the ending...Rand would be able to live the quiet, happy life he always thought he would have and NOT be tied as a hero. LTT is the Hero who is/was/will be tied to the Wheel, Rand is a woolbrained sheepherder.
That's nice for Rand...but what about the next time the Dragon needs to save the world? He'll be gone.
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  #20  
Old 10-07-2009, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SauceyBlueConfetti
Suddenly I realize I am treading thin ice here...getting close to involved in the Rand/LTT two souls arguments which I avoid like the plague.

BLAH. DAMN YOU ALL!
Too late...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ
Q: The question is, with Rand and Lews Therin, do they have 1 soul or 2 souls in the body?
RJ: They have 1 soul with 2 personalities. The reincarnation of souls does not mean reincarnation of personalities. The personality develops with each reincarnation of the soul. This is the cosmology that I [cobbled] together.
If Rand's soul is ripped out of TAR after his death then so too will LTT's soul be ripped out. No longer will there be a Dragon, a champion of the light, tied to the wheel and destined to be spun out when the DO threatens the pattern. Unless Rand's women want to be the cause of the end of the world I don't suggest they pursue this course of action.
 

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