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  #1  
Old 10-24-2009, 05:52 PM
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Default Vaccination a Partisan Issue?

I wouldn't have thought so, but apparently it is.

I wonder what the real cause of the split is? Is it the "Obama is trying to kill us with his evil shot" faction skewing things for the Right-Wing? Are Conservatives simply more likely not to get vaccinations in general and this is just another example of that?

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47% - Swine Flu: Worth a Shot?
Fri Oct 23, 1:00 am ET

The swine flu virus has been making headlines since April, and large majorities of Americans continue to cite it as a news story they are following closely. Yet, if given the chance, only 47% of Americans would get a swine flu vaccine, while an equal number would not. While 60% of Democrats would get a swine flu vaccine if it were available, just 41% of both Republicans and independents would get vaccinated. Republicans are also more likely than Democrats to say the media are overstating the danger involved in swine flu. The country as a whole is roughly split on whether the media are presenting the danger associated with virus appropriately. Among those who say they would not get the vaccine, the most cited reason is that the vaccine is too risky or has not been tested enough. Another quarter say they are healthy or just never get flu shots, while 16% do no believe in vaccinations. Despite any skepticism towards the media’s portrayal of swine flu or of the vaccination itself, fully 64% say they are very (17%) or somewhat (47%) confident in the government’s ability to deal with the swine flu.
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  #2  
Old 10-24-2009, 06:07 PM
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That was part of the point I was trying to make in the other post.

But yeah.

I really do wonder what the response would be if the confirmed Lord and Savior Jesus Christ descended and said, "BHO is my best friend and I fully support everything he is trying to do."

EDIT: On second thought, I seem to remember from Sunday School that Jesus was pretty big on redistributing wealth. Bloody socialist.
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  #3  
Old 10-24-2009, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivhon
That was part of the point I was trying to make in the other post.

But yeah.

I really do wonder what the response would be if the confirmed Lord and Savior Jesus Christ descended and said, "BHO is my best friend and I fully support everything he is trying to do."

EDIT: On second thought, I seem to remember from Sunday School that Jesus was pretty big on redistributing wealth. Bloody socialist.
My guess would be large amounts of Right Wingers would convert to Islam and Judaism...or their heads would explode...

What Such A Scenario MIGHT Look Like

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Old 10-24-2009, 06:33 PM
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It all goes along with the war on science, Dav. Fits right in that category with Intelligent Design and climate change denial.
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Old 10-24-2009, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez
It all goes along with the war on science, Dav. Fits right in that category with Intelligent Design and climate change denial.
Some super crazy Christians think that maybe God allows us to make scientific discoveries like vaccinations and artificial hearts, etc in order to help ourselves...I tend to be one of them.
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Old 10-24-2009, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davian93
Some super crazy Christians think that maybe God allows us to make scientific discoveries like vaccinations and artificial hearts, etc in order to help ourselves...I tend to be one of them.
yooouuu nut
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Old 10-24-2009, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivhon
yooouuu nut
I know, right?
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Old 10-24-2009, 09:40 PM
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I know here in Austin the door swings both ways when it comes to vaccination. A lot of people here aren't doing any vaccines for several reasons other than religious or medical issues: autism scares, not wanting corporate/government interference in their lives, thinking it's not necessary, etc. The State of Texas allows exemptions for public school kids for religious and medical reasons, and they also have a "philosophical" exemption. So, basically, if you don't want to vaccinate your kids for public school, you fill out a form, file it with the state Health Department, and you're done.

I'm extremely liberal, and my objection to some vaccines is the corporate greed being injected into my kids' veins. However, I'm not anti-vaccine, and neither is my extremely Libertarian husband. He was anti-all-vaccines until we had our first daughter, and then we decided to go ahead and do the regular vax schedule because of the potential risks of outbreaks. Austin was in the middle of a whooping cough outbreak because a lot of people weren't vaccinating their kids, and I think one or two even died.

That being said, we're not doing the chicken pox vax, because Merck uses MSG as a preservative and since my mom has an MSG sensitivity (it causes her to have seizures), I refuse to inject that poison into my kids. If you look at the ingredients in the nasal spray administered H1N1 vax, it has MSG in it as a preservative because this flu vax uses a live virus. So, my mom isn't getting it and neither are we. I wouldn't get it anyway, but this is just another big reason not to.

That's my main concern about vaccinations, and the reason why I'm so selective about them. HOWEVER, I make it a point to educate myself on the actualities and don't jump a partisan bandwagon either for or against vaccinations.
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  #9  
Old 10-24-2009, 10:49 PM
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In the current histerical political climate (its true!) everything is a partisian issue. Put the brand of toilet paper used in the Capitol Building in front of Congress for a vote. I swear - three days and staffers will have to be sneaking out whenever number 2 calls due to one of the most unique and unfortunate fillibusters in US history.

As to the Jesus For Obama... I am reminded of a skit from back when he was elected, where the Fox News Room announced Barack's Presidential Victory. Then all their heads exploded one by one. I think it would sort of be like that, only with the whole Bible Belt.
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  #10  
Old 10-25-2009, 12:10 AM
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Default Biggest reason I've come across is religion

Quote:
Some super crazy Christians think that maybe God allows us to make scientific discoveries like vaccinations and artificial hearts, etc in order to help ourselves...I tend to be one of them.
I've met 12 people (fairly sure it's 12...) who are against vaccines. I've only met one person who didn't want to get a vaccine for non-religious reasons. The rest all fall under religious reasons for an even simpler reason: they're creationists.

Vaccines prove evolution exists. Hence, vaccines don't work, because evolution is false.

The other person didn't want to get a vaccine because of crystal powers... or something. Honestly, I stopped listening after they mentioned crystals in the 3rd word or so of their justification for why they wouldn't get a vaccine.

It shouldn't be a political issue. Vaccines work. They're downsides and potential dangers are GREATLY outweighed by their benefits. The rare cases of side effects are no where near as bad as the ravages of polio on large amounts of children. As well, it's a group task. Someone already mentioned an incident in Texas where they lost herd-immunity. Too many people skip vaccines, they lose much of their effectiveness in preventing outbreaks. Bears keeping in mind: people don't get their vaccines, they're not just putting themselves in danger, they can put other people in danger, too.

If you're worried about the vaccine, talk to your doctor. You're almost certainly going to get the same answer: get vaccinated.

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  #11  
Old 10-25-2009, 12:42 AM
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Any proven vaccine (like whooping cough) should be mandatory. No opt-outs, period. You want to die of a easily preventable disease, move your ass to a 3rd world country.


EDIT: Welcome Back Callandor. Your voice has been missed.
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Old 10-25-2009, 03:12 AM
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I have known a total 5 people who refuse to get vaccinated. 3 were due to "political reasons", 1 was due to religious reasons (he's a Muslim), and the last one was "too lazy". I have not known one christian who has refused vaccinations on religious grounds... The general view of the Christians I personally know is that God gave us brains, we used these brains for science, and got a vaccine. Let's use it. ~shrug~ Maybe I live in a weird place. Then again, maybe y'all's Christians where y'all live are just super fundamentalists or something...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davian93
Any proven vaccine (like whooping cough) should be mandatory. No opt-outs, period. You want to die of a easily preventable disease, move your ass to a 3rd world country.
Did you even bother reading bowlwoman's post?
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Old 10-25-2009, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davian93
Some super crazy Christians think that maybe God allows us to make scientific discoveries like vaccinations and artificial hearts, etc in order to help ourselves...I tend to be one of them.
You've probably been tricked by Satan into thinking that his 'science' shows how God's world works. You should remember that only the Bible can provide you, a Christian, with Real Knowledge.
Quote:
Any proven vaccine (like whooping cough) should be mandatory. No opt-outs, period.
To expand a bit on Matoyak's point:
Is it enough if the vaccine is proven to cause seizures in the patient, or would more proof be needed?
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Old 10-25-2009, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davian93
Any proven vaccine (like whooping cough) should be mandatory. No opt-outs, period. You want to die of a easily preventable disease, move your ass to a 3rd world country.
Is my sarcasm meter broken?
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Old 10-25-2009, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
To expand a bit on Matoyak's point:
Is it enough if the vaccine is proven to cause seizures in the patient, or would more proof be needed?
I should clarify to the point of saying its okay if the vaccine will definitely hurt the patient (i.e. Bowlwoman's post). Otherwise, no opt outs because Mommy thinks it might cause autism or other BS like that.
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Old 10-25-2009, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davian93
I should clarify to the point of saying its okay if the vaccine will definitely hurt the patient (i.e. Bowlwoman's post). Otherwise, no opt outs because Mommy thinks it might cause autism or other BS like that.
Taking Snowflake for a drive MIGHT cause a fatal car accident. Somehow I doubt that's preventing anyone from taking their kids to school.

Somehow, somewhere, people have completely fracked up their perceptions of actual risk versus rewards. Maybe simple probability should be taught in schools again.
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Old 10-25-2009, 10:43 AM
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Proven Vaccines = Good for me

Flu Shots = Bad for me



I would never not give my child vaccines (though I still believe all kids should get the chicken pox instead of the vaccine, but meh) But I'm wary of new vaccines, like Guardasil for instance, I was still 26 when it came out and I passed because it was so new, not to mention I'm married and unless we're screwing around on each other I shouldn't need it. LOL

As for the Flu shots...I never (or very rarely get sick) and the only time I have EVER gotten the flu is the 2 years I got the flu shot. Within a couple weeks iirc. So I refuse to get them not, the chance of any flu killing me is slim to none and so far I'm batting a 1.000 for the shot giving me the flu.....
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Old 10-25-2009, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davian93
I should clarify to the point of saying its okay if the vaccine will definitely hurt the patient (i.e. Bowlwoman's post). Otherwise, no opt outs because Mommy thinks it might cause autism or other BS like that.
So you seriously want to deport people based on decisions they make that only really affect them?
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Old 10-25-2009, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davian93
I should clarify to the point of saying its okay if the vaccine will definitely hurt the patient (i.e. Bowlwoman's post). Otherwise, no opt outs because Mommy thinks it might cause autism or other BS like that.
YAY! I love being the exception to the rule.

The actual ingredients in vaccines are pretty gross, if you even get a hold of an ingredients list. A friend is vegan, and she works as a teacher of 3 year-olds in a daycare. She was pretty much required to get the H1N1 vaccine (some kids in her neighborhood had swine flu), but she balked because the shot used eggs in the vaccine as a carrying medium, and the nasally administered vaccine wasn't available. She pretty much had to decide which was the lesser of two evils, and she went ahead and got the shot. At least she consoled herself that the eggs weren't fertilized.

I'm still on the fence about the mercury in vaccines and autism debate, but my personal soapbox on the issue is that it might be an MSG issue. Yeah, I know, but I've had to deal with my teenage years on with my mom having seizures whenever she eats anything with MSG, Parmesan cheese, etc. MSG acts as a pseudo-neurotransmitter, and there are lots of chemicals/preservatives/flavoring agents that contain MSG and people don't realize it. I think the reason a lot of people have reported autism issues in their kids after the MMR vaccine isn't because of mercury, but because of MSG. All 3 of those vaccines (combined as the MMR or separated) use hydrolyzed gelatin as a preservative because they are live viruses, and hydrolyzed gelatin is actually a form of glutamic acid, the non-salt form of MSG. So, the chicken pox vaccine uses BOTH hydrolyzed gelatin and straight-up MSG. That's why it's verboten in this household.

We went ahead and did the MMR vaccines with our girls, even though it contains the hydrolyzed gelatin. I honestly thought long and hard about it, and decided that the risk of them contracting any of those diseases outweighed the risk of the MSG. Also, we don't feed our kids food with preservatives really at all, so they didn't have a lot of MSG in their systems to begin with. I honestly believe that's a contributing factor to the vaccine/autism issue, that the kids in question probably have a genetic predisposition to autism, and all the chemicals running through their bodies from crappy food and preservative laden vaccines just sends them over the line into expressing those genes. Nature + nurture = autism.

Last year Merck marketed a combo MMR-Varicella (chicken pox) vaccine to give to 12-15 month olds. 25% of the kids they administered it to had febrile seizures after receiving the vaccination, and Merck pulled it not long after. That just reinforced my stance on MSG and vaccines = bad.
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Last edited by bowlwoman; 10-25-2009 at 11:11 AM.
  #20  
Old 10-25-2009, 12:34 PM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davian93
I should clarify to the point of saying its okay if the vaccine will definitely hurt the patient (i.e. Bowlwoman's post). Otherwise, no opt outs because Mommy thinks it might cause autism or other BS like that.
How about monetary considerations? Not everyone has health coverage for this in your country, as far as I know.
You're saying that people will have to pay in order to get something they do not want to have in the first place. That's not a very liberal approach, is it?

And how about "say no to drugs"?
If someone actually does say no, you want to throw that person out of the country. Basically, this means that people aren't allowed to inject themselves with things that they do want to, but they are obliged to inject stuff they don't want inside of themselves.

I do think that vaccinations are very important. I do think that ridiculing people over religious objections to it is fair game. But I have strong reservations about mandatory vaccinations for all but special cases.
If it is possible to exterminate a disease through vaccination, then that could be a sufficient reason to make it mandatory. But, as in this case, if it is merely for economical reasons (it would be bad for the economy if too many people got sick at the same time), then that's not good enough to invade people's bodies against their will.
 

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health care, vaccines


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