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View Poll Results: Lews Therin
Lews Therin's memories are real, but the "voice" is an illusion subconsciously created by Rand. 43 75.44%
The LTT in Rands head is the same as the LTT from the AoL, and can think/act, independent of Rand. 14 24.56%
Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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  #1  
Old 10-30-2009, 03:56 AM
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Default Lews Therin poll #2 (spoilers)

Yet another Lews Therin thread!

I'm going to write a final version of the theory. Callandor thinks it's pointless to do so now that this book is out, but obviously at least a few people still think it's not solved. But I'd like to get a poll out just based on people's impressions from reading the book (or from reading the arguments so far).

I'm going to use Oaty's wording for the real'er position again, since everyone seemed to like that. Edit: had to shorten it, could only be 100 characters. I think I preserved the important stuff. If not, let me know a different wording that's under 100 characters, and we'll say that's what you voted for, lol.
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Last edited by Terez; 10-30-2009 at 04:13 AM.
  #2  
Old 10-30-2009, 04:37 AM
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It seems to be a fait acomplí. I see no other way to interpret that final scene, though I know others do.

I suppose you can always say Rand doesn't know what he's talking about...
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  #3  
Old 10-30-2009, 05:01 AM
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Well, I'd better vote for my own wording I guess.

Quote:
I suppose you can always say Rand doesn't know what he's talking about...
If I felt like being a dick I could point out that as yet there is no evidence that Rand has regained any sanity, and that everything said at the end of the book is the ramblings of a madman. Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, I don't believe that. I just interpret it all differently.
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Old 10-30-2009, 05:38 AM
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This is the sixth Lews Therin thread since the book started leaking, not counting other threads that got diverted for a time by the argument. I'd say we should try to integrate them, but I don't think that could be done so smoothly in this case.
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Old 10-30-2009, 12:46 PM
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You need to add a "None of the Above" choice because the wrding given puts half of my view in one option and half in the other, but I disagree with the wording of both.

LTT was Memorex, but functionally independent from Rand's conscious control.
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Old 10-30-2009, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez
This is the sixth Lews Therin thread since the book started leaking, not counting other threads that got diverted for a time by the argument. I'd say we should try to integrate them, but I don't think that could be done so smoothly in this case.
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Old 10-30-2009, 02:05 PM
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I can't vote in this poll because it once again, doesn't fit my views. But I'll try to use some of the terms we seem to agree on now :

I feel that LTT is the personality created by the Dragon Soul when it lived in the Age of Legends. Rand is the personality created by the Dragon Soul to live now. But they are the same man, the same Soul.

Think of it as different faces of the same gem.
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  #8  
Old 10-30-2009, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sodas
I can't vote in this poll because it once again, doesn't fit my views. But I'll try to use some of the terms we seem to agree on now :

I feel that LTT is the personality created by the Dragon Soul when it lived in the Age of Legends. Rand is the personality created by the Dragon Soul to live now. But they are the same man, the same Soul.

Think of it as different faces of the same gem.
wow, complicated.

I agree with the first, Rand was exposed to the memories, this had been happening as he "rediscovered" things he had no right to know 'bout. Yet he ignored those memories and tried not to think 'bout them. His subconscious mind recognized their importance so it constructed a stereotypical madman and used it as an interface for Rand to interact with.

It was a defense mechanistic to either keep Rand sane, give him the needed knowledge, or both.
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Old 10-30-2009, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weird Harold
You need to add a "None of the Above" choice because the wrding given puts half of my view in one option and half in the other, but I disagree with the wording of both.
You didn't say anything about the wording last time you voted.
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  #10  
Old 10-30-2009, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sodas
I can't vote in this poll because it once again, doesn't fit my views.
But you voted anyway? Since no one disagrees with the wording you gave, I'm not sure why you bring it up.
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  #11  
Old 10-30-2009, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez
But you voted anyway? Since no one disagrees with the wording you gave, I'm not sure why you bring it up.
Didn't mean to vote in it actually.

But hey, at least I'm glad you took the time to poll everyone to see if they agree with my wording.
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Mazrim Taim drew the eye. He was tall, with a strongly hooked nose and an air of physical strength about him. An air of darkness, too. He sat there with his ankles crossed and one arm hanging over the heavy arm of the throne, yet he seemed ready to explode into violence. Interestingly, though his black coat was embroidered with blue-and-gold dragons that twined around the sleeves from elbows to cuffs, he did not wear the collar pins.
  #12  
Old 10-30-2009, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creepybob
wow, complicated.
It's not complicated.

Every life, the soul creates a new personality.
LTT was one. Rand is one.

Simple.
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Mazrim Taim drew the eye. He was tall, with a strongly hooked nose and an air of physical strength about him. An air of darkness, too. He sat there with his ankles crossed and one arm hanging over the heavy arm of the throne, yet he seemed ready to explode into violence. Interestingly, though his black coat was embroidered with blue-and-gold dragons that twined around the sleeves from elbows to cuffs, he did not wear the collar pins.
  #13  
Old 10-30-2009, 05:16 PM
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I think the voice can think/act independently of Rand, but also that it was created by him subconsciously, and that it's impossible to determine its relationship with the real LTT. So...all of the above?
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Old 10-30-2009, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sodas
I feel that LTT is the personality created by the Dragon Soul when it lived in the Age of Legends. Rand is the personality created by the Dragon Soul to live now. But they are the same man, the same Soul.

Think of it as different faces of the same gem.
There's nothing in those statements I would disagree with even a bit. But that doesn't really say anything about the voice.

Or was that your complaint about the poll? I could see that, I suppose.
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Old 10-30-2009, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weird Harold
LTT was Memorex, but functionally independent from Rand's conscious control.
So uh... subconsciously controlled by Rand?
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Old 10-30-2009, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belazamon
There's nothing in those statements I would disagree with even a bit. But that doesn't really say anything about the voice.

Or was that your complaint about the poll? I could see that, I suppose.
The poll option makes it clear that construct is about the voice (and the apparent actions, though those are more rare).

@Neil - he's just being contrary for the sake of being contrary, I think.
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Old 10-30-2009, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez
You didn't say anything about the wording last time you voted.
Because the other poll was worded enough differently to make a meaningful choice possible. This wording doesn't.
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Old 10-30-2009, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neilbert
So uh... subconsciously controlled by Rand?
Not exactly.

When the LTT Persona was in control, it was the primary consciousness and Rand's Persona was repressed.

My main disagreement is that I think the LTT Pesona was reconstructed so as to be virtually ndistinguishable from LTT's AOL Personality -- an "authentic reproduction." It is reconstructed so well that it has a "life of its own" that can function without Rand's persona and vice versa.
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Old 10-30-2009, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weird Harold
Because the other poll was worded enough differently to make a meaningful choice possible. This wording doesn't.
The wording for 'construct' is exactly the same. They complained about the real'er wording, so I told them to make their own.

I've never seen Rand's persona suppressed. Or, at least, I think it's too impossible to draw a line between what is Rand and what is Lews Therin to make that sort of distinction.
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Old 10-30-2009, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez
The wording for 'construct' is exactly the same. They complained about the real'er wording, so I told them to make their own.

I've never seen Rand's persona suppressed. Or, at least, I think it's too impossible to draw a line between what is Rand and what is Lews Therin to make that sort of distinction.
We have seen Rand "pushed aside" but we always see things from Rand's POV, so it appears to be dominant all the time.
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