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  #1  
Old 11-04-2009, 08:28 AM
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Default Thoughts on Demandred

So, another book down and we still have no idea as to where he is or what he is doing.

We got an important clue in the prologue that merely says "his rule is secure and his forces ready". Still no clues as to which country/countries he's in and what forces are his.

Here are the various possibilities that have been bandied about lately for our discussion:

1. Murandy: (i.e. Either King Roedran or the power behind the throne of King Roedran). It doesn't really fit for a couple reasons mainly having to do with Murandy's relative unimportance in the grand scheme of things.

2. The Black Tower: Taim seems to have things in control and the latest overall color scheme for his Palace suggests a strong allegiance to Moridin, not Demandred. Though they could be working together to run Taim. My personal theory is that Taim is a new Chosen so it would preclude anyone but Moridin telling him what to do at this point.

3. Shara: Its possible he's been busy consolidating the Shadow in Shara. However, Graendal's been there to kidnap their leaders and she has no inkling of him being there. Its possible he moved in after her kidnapping trip in LoC however.

4. Seanchan: Its a bit off the wall but perhaps Stage 2 of Semi's decapitation of the Seanchan royal family was the installation of Demandred as a new Emperor of the Seanchan continent. They were allies so its a possibility if a slim one.

5. The Borderlander Armies: Graendal seemed to think its a possibility and it is one of the few powerful military forces still unaccounted for in the books.

6. None of the Above: Its possible we have no clue and will not find out till he strikes.

So what are your thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 11-04-2009, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
1. Murandy: (i.e. Either King Roedran or the power behind the throne of King Roedran). It doesn't really fit for a couple reasons mainly having to do with Murandy's relative unimportance in the grand scheme of things.
Demandred doesn't seem the type to be pulling strings or acting in a position of low power. He's a commander, so playing the king of a weak nation just doesn't fit his personality.

Quote:
2. The Black Tower: Taim seems to have things in control and the latest overall color scheme for his Palace suggests a strong allegiance to Moridin, not Demandred. Though they could be working together to run Taim. My personal theory is that Taim is a new Chosen so it would preclude anyone but Moridin telling him what to do at this point.
I can see this, but I don't know what his motive would be in this instance.

Quote:
3. Shara: Its possible he's been busy consolidating the Shadow in Shara. However, Graendal's been there to kidnap their leaders and she has no inkling of him being there. Its possible he moved in after her kidnapping trip in LoC however.
Shara seems kind of out of the loop of the entire story, so I doubt he'd carve out a kingdom in a place that doesn't matter.

Quote:
4. Seanchan: Its a bit off the wall but perhaps Stage 2 of Semi's decapitation of the Seanchan royal family was the installation of Demandred as a new Emperor of the Seanchan continent. They were allies so its a possibility if a slim one.
This could be possible, considering his alliance with Semi. Becoming emperor is the only option I could see for him, though, and it's pretty far fetched.

Quote:
5. The Borderlander Armies: Graendal seemed to think its a possibility and it is one of the few powerful military forces still unaccounted for in the books.
You know, I was ready to throw this one out, but something has always bothered me. Why did the Borderlanders leave the Borderlands? Even Rand made a comment about it. Maybe Demandred has a hand in their seeming disregard for defending the Blight. Possible.

Quote:
6. None of the Above: Its possible we have no clue and will not find out till he strikes.
Sadly, this seems the most likely conclusion.
  #3  
Old 11-04-2009, 09:11 AM
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since your suggestions seem to not be excluding anything, why not...

6) Tear, where King Darlin is in control and is raising a huge army for Rand.

7) Tar Valon, where his ally is/was located, and Elaida (IIRC on Alviarin's suggestions) had the Tower Guard increased.

8) Nowhere, and the gambler is bluffing for all he is worth LOL
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  #4  
Old 11-04-2009, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WinespringBrother
since your suggestions seem to not be excluding anything, why not...

6) Tear, where King Darlin is in control and is raising a huge army for Rand.

7) Tar Valon, where his ally is/was located, and Elaida (IIRC on Alviarin's suggestions) had the Tower Guard increased.

8) Nowhere, and the gambler is bluffing for all he is worth LOL
All possibilities. "Where is Demandred?" is a far more interesting question to answer than "Who killed Asmo?" and there is far less info to go on.
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Old 11-04-2009, 09:30 AM
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Maybe there is a big *small* clue in books 4-6, hmmm?
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  #6  
Old 11-04-2009, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WinespringBrother
Maybe there is a big *small* clue in books 4-6, hmmm?
I was thinking about that.
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Old 11-04-2009, 10:10 AM
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Loony theory: Demandred is on the Isle of Madmen and is going to gateway in all the channelers to fight on the side of the Shadow.
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Old 11-04-2009, 10:10 AM
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I like the idea that he is with the Borderlander's group.

How odd will it be to have this group, sworn to defend the last stand before the Blight, facing off against Lan's group and Ituralde's army who will be occupying the lands these troops have abandonded?

I have liked this one for a while, but there doesn't seem to be a strong male character to peg with that group as Demandred-lik.
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Old 11-04-2009, 10:14 AM
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The Borderlanders seems like a red herring. Although reading the Gathering Storm I had a moment where I half expected Demandred to be posing as Hurin, which would have been dumb.

The thing with Demandred is that he's been kept hidden for so long, there has to be some major consequence to his reveal. There's only really three things that would satisfy that criteria at this point. One is the Borderlanders. Two is something regarding Taim and the black tower. The third is that he's been posing as someone relatively close to Rand. There's not really a plausible candidate for the third one.

As an off the wall possibility, what if he's been collecting channelers from the Land of Madmen and all of those discarded by the Sea Folk on random islands?
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Old 11-04-2009, 10:16 AM
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RJ basically said the Land of the Madmen would have no impact on the plot...its simply a space on the map for the BWB.
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Old 11-04-2009, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davian93
RJ basically said the Land of the Madmen would have no impact on the plot...its simply a space on the map for the BWB.
Ah, never mind then. Was just throwing it out there.
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Old 11-04-2009, 10:48 AM
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The problem with the Borderlander theory is that we saw them all meet and decide to go south. It's been several years since I read that passage, but I don't recall thinking there was any evidence of Compulsion or unreasonable action. They all came together despite their differences and made the decision to move, and there wasn't a clear leader in the group.

Another key point is that Demandred probably won't be posing as the leader himself. He's going to be working through a proxy, which is one reason the Murandy thing might work (assuming there's a lot more to it than just a middling, if geographically central, country).
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Old 11-04-2009, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crispin's Crispian
The problem with the Borderlander theory is that we saw them all meet and decide to go south. It's been several years since I read that passage, but I don't recall thinking there was any evidence of Compulsion or unreasonable action. They all came together despite their differences and made the decision to move, and there wasn't a clear leader in the group.

Another key point is that Demandred probably won't be posing as the leader himself. He's going to be working through a proxy, which is one reason the Murandy thing might work (assuming there's a lot more to it than just a middling, if geographically central, country).
That's why I don't think he's with the Borderlanders. I like my wacky Seanchan idea personally. Demandred gating into the Last Battle with the entire Mainland Seanchan military at his back would be awesome. Tuon would freak.
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Old 11-04-2009, 11:07 AM
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Another thought: Who did the Borderland Rulers leave in charge when they all went south?
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Old 11-04-2009, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonzi77
As an off the wall possibility, what if he's been collecting channelers from the Land of Madmen and all of those discarded by the Sea Folk on random islands?
OK...I posted the same thing about the Land of the Madmen 4 minutes before you. Jinx????

Davian, do you have a quote where RJ said that the LotM was just a space taker-upper? Because Dragonmount's write-up of the BYU midnight signing has this in the Q&A section:

Quote:
Question (Claire): Will we see the Land of Madmen in any of the last books?

Answer: RAFO.
I think it's quite plausible that's where Demandred has been hiding out. I also like the idea of him gathering all the castoff Sea Folk male channelers, and perhaps some from Seandar as well. While RJ has explicitly said we won't see the lands of Shara or others directly on screen, there's no reason to believe that people from those areas can't show up in Randland (especially with Travelling). Besides, this is an entire world conflict, so I'd think that there'd be representatives from every land at the LB, whether on the side of the Light or Dark.
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Old 11-04-2009, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bowlwoman
OK...I posted the same thing about the Land of the Madmen 4 minutes before you. Jinx????

Great minds... :-). I think I had already clicked reply before your post showed up, but I might have just missed it.

Back to Demandred, each time I re-read LoC I look for clues since the book starts and ends with him and his "Haven't I done well, Great Lord" hints that something in that book was his handiwork, but if it's not something to do with Taim and the Black Tower I don't know what it is.
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Old 11-04-2009, 11:20 AM
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Demandred better have a cool death after all this build up.

I will look for that Land of the Madmen reference.
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Old 11-04-2009, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonzi77
Great minds... :-). I think I had already clicked reply before your post showed up, but I might have just missed it.
Yeah, the timing of the two posts makes it pretty clear that we posted it, independently, at the same time. Great minds indeed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonzi77
Back to Demandred, each time I re-read LoC I look for clues since the book starts and ends with him and his "Haven't I done well, Great Lord" hints that something in that book was his handiwork, but if it's not something to do with Taim and the Black Tower I don't know what it is.
Well, he's up to no good, that's for sure. Lots of places for him to be: Seandar, Shara, LotM (maybe), Borderland armies, Murandy...has anyone compiled a comprehensive list of possible Demandred sighting locations?
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Old 11-04-2009, 11:47 AM
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Seandar would make some sort of sense. We know he had an alliance with Semirhage, so part of that plan could be to control the Seanchan on both sides of the ocean.
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Old 11-04-2009, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonzi77
Seandar would make some sort of sense. We know he had an alliance with Semirhage, so part of that plan could be to control the Seanchan on both sides of the ocean.
Yeah, but Mesaana had an alliance with them as well.

Honestly this may be a good reason to put him with the Black Tower - all three major channeling forces under the control of one of the Chosen.

Or, in a really fun twist - Basheredred!!
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