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  #1  
Old 11-09-2009, 02:55 PM
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Default Thoughts on the "Minor Detail"

I have been wracking my brain, as I am sure quite a few of you have, trying to find something. Here is what I have come up with as my best idea thus far and its not much, more of a path to follow maybe.

I know this has been brought up before, but to re-hash some thoughts:

-Mat will play a big role in the next book
-the ToG will take a good chunk of the book

With these things in mind I keep coming back to the games Snakes and Foxes and Olver.

The game has been discussed before, but, imho, somewhat glossed over. We have Bridgette's comment to Perrin, Moiraine's letter to Thom and some other references. Olver has been discussed mostly as an option for Gaidal, which we know is not the case. We do know that Olver will be more than just a red herring and that he is determined to find a way to beat the game.

There are a few little things spread throughout the series about it as well, such as Mat getting a knife in the doorway no problem, so we can guess that they can't sense these forbidden things but we can lie to them.

I could easily see this being a slap the forehead thing since RJ has been throwing it in our faces for a while. Now the trick would be to find what we are overlooking.

I feel like I am looking at a puzzle with pieces missing, but I could just as easily be barking up the wrong tree.

One thing that wouldn't surprise me is Olver playing a role in the ToG, either taking Noal's place or something else entirely.

Anyway, any thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 11-09-2009, 03:18 PM
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Moiraine's instructions were quite explicit. I don't see Olver being involved.

Though I have no idea what the point of him is in the series.
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Old 11-09-2009, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurtz
Moiraine's instructions were quite explicit. I don't see Olver being involved.

Though I have no idea what the point of him is in the series.
I dont see her letter as precluding Olver from going. Everyone assumes it will be Noal, which is most likely true, but there is nothing specific in the letter that says Olver cant be one of the 3 who go.
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Old 11-09-2009, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Ieyasu
I dont see her letter as precluding Olver from going. Everyone assumes it will be Noal, which is most likely true, but there is nothing specific in the letter that says Olver cant be one of the 3 who go.
Does she not say another man?
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Old 11-09-2009, 04:01 PM
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I certainly wouldnt be surprised to see Oliver play a very large role in the rescue of Moiraine. He (was) just too obsessed with snakes and foxes. However, I dont know what role he would play. I still think Noal will join Matt and Thom.

Another possibility for the small detail could be in the contract between the Sea Folk and Rand. While I wasnt able to spot any obvious impacts to the future with the contract, dealings with the Sea Folk were more abundant in books 4-6. The Sea Folk have since turned unimportant, except as another group of Channelers of saidar. I think they will be very significant to at least one of the major plot devices in the last two books, whether or not the minor detail refers to them.
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Old 11-09-2009, 04:09 PM
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Default Olver

I like this thought, but I wonder if Olver himself can be said to be a small detail...or is it something about Olver, some detail about him that tends to stick in your mind for a second but you find it unimportant, so you move on...specifically because we know he is not Gaidal Cain...that will shock us because it indicates something about Olver that we all missed?
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Old 11-09-2009, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamyrlin
I like this thought, but I wonder if Olver himself can be said to be a small detail...or is it something about Olver, some detail about him that tends to stick in your mind for a second but you find it unimportant, so you move on...specifically because we know he is not Gaidal Cain...that will shock us because it indicates something about Olver that we all missed?
....Demandred
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Old 11-09-2009, 04:33 PM
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I do agree that Noal is the more likely of the two options and I am pretty sure Moiraine says "another man".

It's specifically the game and Olver that I am stuck on, I feel that a small detail is there that we overlooked. Courage to strengthen definitely seems to fit Olver though he could easily be used for something else.
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Old 11-09-2009, 04:43 PM
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Default I'll admit, I've never seen Olver is Demandred

...but now that you bring it up...
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Old 11-09-2009, 04:54 PM
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Well, the Tower of Ghenji is likely going to be very important, but it isn't the only thing that is going to happen. Morgase is going to be reunited with Galad and likely take a trip to Caemlyn and see Elayne, and there's also the matter of the changes that have happened in the Two Rivers starting in book 4, especially if Perrin is with Morgase.
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  #11  
Old 11-09-2009, 04:58 PM
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Yes, but I thinking big. I believe BS said it would play a major role or a big role or something like that so I am thinking bigger first, not throwing out other alternatives. Wanted to get some feelers out on this one.

Fortunately, I was on book 4 when 12 came out so as I continue on I will pay more attention to details. I also think I will look for something on Olver. We know he has some point to serve in the series per RJ.
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Old 11-09-2009, 05:05 PM
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yes, but even the smallest event can become huge if done right.

Also, what about the Ogier? Not Loial specifically, but perhaps something else? They were involved a fair amount, Loial's mother, etc in the books 4-6 and not much discussed.
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Old 11-09-2009, 05:41 PM
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Default An Ogier Army

Come to fight for Rand, with Loial leading it?
  #14  
Old 11-09-2009, 05:58 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamyrlin
...but now that you bring it up...
Refresh my memory from too long away from these boards:

Why have we ruled out Talmaindred? I don't remember a POV from him, anywhere. Is it just because he hasn't tried to take Mat out?
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Old 11-09-2009, 06:11 PM
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possibly, but that also brings up an interesting point: if the Ogier open up the book of Translation, what happens to all the Seanchan Ogier? Do they get left behind or are they taken with?

edit: Humm, Jak o' the Shadows appeared in tFoH
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  #16  
Old 11-09-2009, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivhon
Refresh my memory from too long away from these boards:

Why have we ruled out Talmaindred? I don't remember a POV from him, anywhere. Is it just because he hasn't tried to take Mat out?
If I am not mistaken, I am pretty certain that RJ said we had not seen Demandred's alter ego on screen.
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Old 11-09-2009, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivhon
Refresh my memory from too long away from these boards:

Why have we ruled out Talmaindred? I don't remember a POV from him, anywhere. Is it just because he hasn't tried to take Mat out?
Isn't Demandred supposed to be utterly humorless? Doesn't really mesh with Talmanes.
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Old 11-09-2009, 06:33 PM
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http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Michael_Ma...ary_16%2C_2003

Q: Have we yet seen the alter-ego Demandred presents to the Third Agers on-screen?

A(RJ): NO. (I asked twice to make sure.)
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Old 11-09-2009, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivhon
Refresh my memory from too long away from these boards:

Why have we ruled out Talmaindred? I don't remember a POV from him, anywhere. Is it just because he hasn't tried to take Mat out?
Because RJ has said a bajillion times that Taim is not Demandred. He never said that Olver wasn't Demandred though
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Old 11-09-2009, 06:55 PM
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Default Sea Folk details & connections

Quote:
Originally Posted by legends be wrought
Another possibility for the small detail could be in the contract between the Sea Folk and Rand. While I wasnt able to spot any obvious impacts to the future with the contract, dealings with the Sea Folk were more abundant in books 4-6. The Sea Folk have since turned unimportant, except as another group of Channelers of saidar. I think they will be very significant to at least one of the major plot devices in the last two books, whether or not the minor detail refers to them.
I've noticed that RJ showed the public fracturing of two major sides within both the Sea Folk clans and the Salidar Ajah Heads. With the Rebels everyone in the camp knew about Romanda Cassin and Lelaine, each desiring to become Amyrlin Seat. While among the Sea Folk public fracturing can be seen in the hatred of two sisters, then combined with polarization between Zaida din Parede Blackwing of Clan Catelar and Harine din Togara Two Winds of Clan Shodein, to become the next Mistress of Ships after Nesta din Reas Two Moons was kill by the Seanchan during the Great Escape.

Three minor/major Sea Folk details might have to do with the Sea Folk man who attended Ishamael's Darkfriend Social hour in tFoH Prologue; then there is the impact of a formerly Windfinder to Mistress of the Ships before Nesta din Reas Two Moons, who is currently last known to be in Caemlyn (Senine who went from the highest Windfinder around to the operating a small soarer in Ebou Bar); and of course a very important politically connected Sea Folk apprentice Talaan who now wants to become an Aes Sedai.

Two of these Sea Folk character may play a very important part in the next two books: Talaan in terms of Sea Folk to Aes Sedai relationship, unknown high ranking Sea Folk darkfriend to undermining Zaida implementation of the Bargain with the Coramoor.

Senine part in the future of the story I'm not sure of, because Zaida become the newest Mistress of the Ships with two prior Windfinders to the Mistresses of the Ships in Caemlyn, Renaile din Calon Blue Star was the other Windfinder. I think it will be highly interesting to see what Mat thinks of each former Windfinder to the Mistress of Ships when he arrives in Caemlyn, considering one of his Eelfinn given memories recalls dancing with the Wavemistress of the Clan Shodein.

-----------------------------------------------

There are three other small details which I can think of which connect Verin Sedai to the Sea Folk. Those three small details are: (1) the star maps/charts within Verin's rooms in the Tar Valon library building which show stars Egwene never had seen before (Southern Hemisphere star clusters?? In Shara at the equator??), (2) Verin learned before Cadsuane that Nesta din Reas Two Moons was killed (CoT, Chapter 23), lastly (3) Verin spoke of the TAR as the "Third Constant", "Illusions" which is similar in vocabulary and concepts to how the Amayar describe the TAR (which implies possibly that Verin visited the Sea Folk islands somehow).

Its an open question if one of Verin's many letters to given out before visiting Egwene, deals with the Sea Folk in particular or not???

-------------------------------------------------

The Sea Folk clans all have a parallel major dislike of the Seanchan likely rising to the Amys judgment of "blood feud" towards the Seanchan Empire, why? The Seanchan enslaved every Windfinder they could find, and killed hundreds of Winderfinders and a Mistress of Ships during the Great Escape from Ebou Bar. While the enslavement of the Shiado Wise Ones created a new "blood feud" in Amys judgment. Both the Sea Folk and remains Aiel Clans will be united in their dislike toward the Seanchan Empire. Each of these groups in combination with the Kin and newly reunited Aes Sedai all can agreement that the Seanchan are a major threat. Yet the Sea Folk clans Windfinders have fought the Seanchan Damane far more than any of the other groups of female channelers together. Only Rand's Asha'man are at all close here.
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Last edited by FelixPax; 11-13-2009 at 01:44 AM.
 

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