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  #1  
Old 11-10-2009, 12:17 AM
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Default Mesaana

Egwene wonders about where Mesaana is located:

Quote:
Originally Posted by tGS book Chapter "Bathed in Light" - pg 763-764
Egwene has a feeling. A premonintion, perhaps. At the very least, a fear. There three names were the only ones who could have been the Forsaken. But none of them fit, not at all. That gave her a chill. Was Mesaana still hiding in the Tower?
Mesaana is still in the White Tower, confirms Brandon Sanderson at a booksigning today:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Leader Report, Milford, NHQ. - November 9th 2009
Has Mesaana’s alter ego been seen yet “on stage”? [I suspect the fan that asked this is one of the Blues I mentioned earlier, though she may be a Brown, too.]

A. “I’m afraid I’m going to have to RAFO [read and find out] that.” Any yes/no would set all the fans, especially on the message boards and fans into figuring it out by process of elimination. The crowd pressed him for hints, and he did confirm that she is still in the White Tower. This statement was met with speculative “oohhh”’s and pensive looks as new theories were born then and there. Source: Dragonmount
So the question is who is Mesaana? What occupation has she been using? Cook, servant, helper, assist to a librarian, novice et la, but what & who? And how long has Mesaana been within the White Tower?

We can guess Mesaana is not using as cover an Aes Sedai identity, according to Egwene's own reasoning (tGS, pg 764). But I have a question, did Robert Jordan ever confirm in an interview we have seen Mesaana's alter ego in a scene before?

If so, the number of possible characters available is quite slim to be Mesaana.
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  #2  
Old 11-10-2009, 12:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FelixPax
Originally Posted by Storm Leader Report, Milford, NH - November 9th 2009

Q: Has Mesaana's alter ego been seen yet "on stage"? [I suspect the fan that asked this is one of the Blues I mentioned earlier, though she may be a Brown, too.]

A. "I'm afraid I'm going to have to RAFO [read and find out] that." Any yes/no would set all the fans, especially on the message boards and fans into figuring it out by process of elimination. The crowd pressed him for hints, and he did confirm that she is still in the White Tower. This statement was met with speculative "oohhh's" and pensive looks as new theories were born then and there.
Sorry, but this question has already been answered by RJ. The answer is YES - Mesaana's alter ego has been seen before. And, RJ indicated way back in 2003 that we should be able to figure out who she is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ
Bailey's Crossroads VA 2005 - Robert Mee Reporting

Q: Have we actually seen Mesaana's alter ego in the White Tower?
RJ: Yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ
Crossroads of Twilight book tour 18 January 2003, Harvard Coop - Tallis reporting

Tallis: RJ said there are many clues as to Mesaana's identity, enough that we should figure it out before Crossroads of Twilight. He basically said that he'd full-out reveal her in upcoming books, though: '...and if you still don't know, well, you'll find out later.'
We also know from the prologue to TGS that Graendal believes Mesaana to be an Aes Sedai in the Tower:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ/BS
TITLE: Gathering Storm
CHAPTER: PROLOGUE - What the Storm Means

That man frustrated her, though she would never admit it out loud. Mesaana was in the White Tower, pretending to be one of what passed for an Aes Sedai in this Age. She was obvious and easy to read; Graendal's agents in the White Tower kept her well apprised of Mesaana's activities. And, of course, Graendal's own newly minted association with Aran'gar was helpful as well. Aran'gar was playing with the rebel Aes Sedai, the ones who were besieging the White Tower.
There are other clues from previous books, of course, that Mesaana is Aes Sedai. In particular, when Mesaana is partially unmasked by Shaidar Haran in front of Alviaran, we learn that her dress is Aes Sedai-like and her face seems vaguely familiar to Alviarin, leading to the conclusion that Mesaana has to be posing as an Aes Sedai in the Tower. This was discussed recently in this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FelixPax
But I have a question, did Robert Jordan ever confirm in an interview we have seen Mesaana's alter ego in a scene before?
Can you not use the interview database? Or the WoT Wiki? In the Interview Database, for example, click on the link for "Forsaken", and then search (Control-F) for Mesaana. The quotes that I listed here show up, and it takes only a few minutes...
  #3  
Old 11-10-2009, 01:23 AM
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Quote:
Q. Has Mesaana’s alter ego been seen yet “on stage”? [I suspect the fan that asked this is one of the Blues I mentioned earlier, though she may be a Brown, too.]

A. “I’m afraid I’m going to have to RAFO [read and find out] that.” Any yes/no would set all the fans, especially on the message boards and fans into figuring it out by process of elimination. The crowd pressed him for hints, and he did confirm that she is still in the White Tower. This statement was met with speculative “oohhh”’s and pensive looks as new theories were born then and there.
I think the interesting thing about this quote is that Egwene was right when she said in tGS that she thought Mesaana escaped the purge. This is something we've been talking about since the book came out. (Assuming she's posing as an Aes Sedai, which I think she is.) I was just getting ready to post this quote myself!

ETA: This is from a new Q&A with BS. http://www.dragonmount.com/News/?p=1021
  #4  
Old 11-10-2009, 01:39 AM
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Why assume she's posing as a woman? Just because Alviarin caught hint of a skirt?

i wouldn't limit your search to female characters.
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  #5  
Old 11-10-2009, 02:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marie Curie 7
Sorry, but this question has already been answered by RJ. The answer is YES - Mesaana's alter ego has been seen before. And, RJ indicated way back in 2003 that we should be able to figure out who she is.
Yes, that was my ongoing assumption but I didn't know when RJ stated this "fact". When matters because it would narrow down the scope of possible characters as her alter ego.

However, the current Q&A interview with Brandon seems to directly imply that Mesaana remains in Tar Valon after the purging of Black Ajah in tGS. Before this Q&A interview one couldn't say for sure where Mesaana remains after the purge of BA's among the loyalist & rebels Aes Sedai.

People seems to enjoy exploiting other individuals errors with joy, I've noticed lately; so why give them fodder by showing more assumptions openly than necessary?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marie Curie 7
We also know from the prologue to TGS that Graendal believes Mesaana to be an Aes Sedai in the Tower:
Yes, so? Graendal is now likely dead, unless you believe someone else gave Lord Ramshalan a compulsion weave from that Fortress (tGS pg 571)? Graendal's statement in the Prologue pre-dates the BA purges, that why we didn't know if Mesaana remained there or not after the fact.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marie Curie 7
There are other clues from previous books, of course, that Mesaana is Aes Sedai.
Somehow I doubt Mesaana is hidden as an Aes Sedai within the White Tower. The servants for example have their very own set of stairs & corridors within the White Tower to use to deliver goods & to use objects. Moiraine, Siuan, Yukiri, Seaine all have mentioned that the White Tower servants know more than most Aes Sedai believe they know, so why wouldn't Mesaana use the servants, workers and their own set of stairs as cover as well?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marie Curie 7
Can you not use the interview database? Or the WoT Wiki?
That database is not shown in the U.I. of Theoryland, if you didn't know. Terez has it listed somewhere offsite, I recalled. And yes I once read the whole database, but that was months ago. Besides I've never even heard of a WoT Wiki, let alone used it before. Generally I try rely the books, as even Terez has been known to say "I'm lazy, Budapest" when asked for any references about prior interviews.


The point remains, we know that Mesaana remains in the White Tower going into ToM book because of Brandon's Q&A interview at that booksigning.
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Last edited by FelixPax; 11-10-2009 at 02:43 AM.
  #6  
Old 11-10-2009, 04:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tGS, Epilogue, Bathed in Light
Egwene had a feeling. A premonition, perhaps. At the very least, a fear. These three names were the only ones who could have been the Forsaken. But none of them fit, not at all. That gave her a chill. Was Mesaana still hiding in the Tower?
If so, she somehow knew how to defeat the Oath Rod.
A soft knock came at her door. It cracked a moment later. "Mother?" Silviana asked.
Egwene has a premonition about Mesaana, and who shows up immediately after?
  #7  
Old 11-10-2009, 05:10 AM
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Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat
Egwene has a premonition about Mesaana, and who shows up immediately after?
Has any WoT mystery ever been so easily solved?
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Old 11-10-2009, 05:18 AM
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Yay, I'm glad it's confirmed she's still in the Tower.

I really can't wait to get to work on the BS signing reports. I hate school!
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Old 11-10-2009, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jokeslayer
Has any WoT mystery ever been so easily solved?
I do have to admit that it is intuitively obvious to the most casual reader.
  #10  
Old 11-10-2009, 06:05 AM
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I wonder how effective Mesaana will be in the WT without the Black Ajah to act as her agents? There is no doubt that she is very powerful as a channeler. Saying that the was most deadly by having the BA pull the strings behind the scenes.

I suppose she could still try to influence internal tower politics but she would have to be very careful in her use of compulsion. Short of going to kill key Aes Sedai I wonder what can she do for the shadow now.
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Old 11-10-2009, 06:46 AM
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The Forsaken have shown an ability to manipulate people other than Darkfriends quite well. Rahvin managed to wrap Andor around his finger through Morgase. So Mesaana doesn't need the Black Ajah. It just makes her job more difficult not having them. However, I think it is almost necessary that she be an Aes Sedai, and one with some sort of influence. A Novice, Accepted or servant would have a much harder time pulling strings without the outright use of compulsion.
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Old 11-10-2009, 07:12 AM
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In the Age Of Legends, Mesaana apparently managed fairly well despite not having the Black Ajah to obey her every command. So while they were useful dupes to her, I don't think they are an absolute necessity.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:21 AM
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I agreed that most forsaken can use compulsion to further their own ends. The trouble is that its not so easy to use compulsion on a number of AS when they are surrounded by other Aes Sedai.

If you get them alone like Rahvin did to the Red sent to spy on Morgase he has no problems but in a group any odd behavour would be noticed. Even the master of compulsion Graendal can leave traces of her work as shown by Nynaeve.

Having heard that there was a forsaken in the Tower I would suspect Egwene would ge on the look out for any odd behavour and this will tie Mesaana's hands a bit.
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Old 11-10-2009, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma
I agreed that most forsaken can use compulsion to further their own ends. The trouble is that its not so easy to use compulsion on a number of AS when they are surrounded by other Aes Sedai.

If you get them alone like Rahvin did to the Red sent to spy on Morgase he has no problems but in a group any odd behavour would be noticed. Even the master of compulsion Graendal can leave traces of her work as shown by Nynaeve.

Having heard that there was a forsaken in the Tower I would suspect Egwene would ge on the look out for any odd behavour and this will tie Mesaana's hands a bit.
Exactly. So she's got to be someone with some direct influence on the events of the Tower. Aes Sedai aren't going to take direction or even give the time of day to a cook or a maid and it would take an impossibly clever novice or accepted to have the slightest impact on the events of the Tower, absent artificial means with communication.

That's why I say Mesaana has to be an Aes Sedai, there's no one left to take her orders, so she has to steer her plans by herself.
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Old 11-10-2009, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonzi77
That's why I say Mesaana has to be an Aes Sedai, there's no one left to take her orders, so she has to steer her plans by herself.
Or she could be Laras, and just poison the lot of them.
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Old 11-10-2009, 12:20 PM
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Wouldn't that be a blast?
If on the evening before TG, the reunited Tower has Forkroot soup?
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Old 11-10-2009, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma
I agreed that most forsaken can use compulsion to further their own ends. The trouble is that its not so easy to use compulsion on a number of AS when they are surrounded by other Aes Sedai.
Moggy survived quite well surrounded by Aes Sedai posing as a servant. She didn't use "Compulsion" as such but she did use a similar weave to avoid actually having to work.

I think it is when she took over the remains of the Keystone Koven that she explained the advantage of posing as a servant.

However, Mesaana is NOT posing as a servant; her description when Shadar Haran unmasked her strongly suggests that she is simulating the ageless look with a minimal mask of mirrors and otherwise getting around without a physical disguise.

He clothing every time it has been revealed is not the clothing of a servant so she is posing either as an aes sedai or as one of the noble women who seek sanctuary in the Tower for whatever reason and Alviarin's almost recognition tips the evidence to Aes Sedai rather than Noblewoman.
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Old 11-10-2009, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weird Harold
Moggy survived quite well surrounded by Aes Sedai posing as a servant. She didn't use "Compulsion" as such but she did use a similar weave to avoid actually having to work.
But Moghedien had different goals than Mesaana did. She was trying to keep an eye on a group of darkfriends and make sure they sufficiently carried out pre-given orders while trying to gain an advantage for herself. When it actually came time to steer them she had to reveal herself.

Mesaana needs to exert influence on the White Tower. If she's posing as someone of low station, the best she can do is spy, and it seems like that can be done with something less than one of the few remaining Forsaken.
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Old 11-10-2009, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weird Harold
However, Mesaana is NOT posing as a servant; her description when Shadar Haran unmasked her strongly suggests that she is simulating the ageless look with a minimal mask of mirrors and otherwise getting around without a physical disguise.

He clothing every time it has been revealed is not the clothing of a servant
Pfft, this all applies to Laras perfectly well. Obviously Alviarin thought Mesaana looked familiar because all you'd have to do is add a hundred pounds to get Laras. And Laras has already been cited as getting too big for her britches after her promotion, so it wouldn't be at all surprising if she bought some sweet dresses.


EDIT: Forgot the most important point - Larasaana is a bitchin' name.
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Old 11-10-2009, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belazamon
Pfft, this all applies to Laras perfectly well. Obviously Alviarin thought Mesaana looked familiar because all you'd have to do is add a hundred pounds to get Laras. And Laras has already been cited as getting too big for her britches after her promotion, so it wouldn't be at all surprising if she bought some sweet dresses.


EDIT: Forgot the most important point - Larasaana is a bitchin' name.
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm sold.
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