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  #1  
Old 11-24-2009, 05:20 PM
isamu237 isamu237 is offline
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Default Demandred

So this is all, pure, wild, unfounded, lunatic speculation; but when has that ever stopped any of us?
I'm on my second read of TGS. I read it as soon as it came out in a frenzied, emotional hurry; then a full series reread. I'm sure that Thesis will just write itself. Anywho...
Where the hell is Demandred? I think that's gotten to the point where I'm more bothered by that than Who Killed Asmo; at least with that I can build a case, present evidence and make a logical argument. Do we have any solid evidence of Dem? For the longest time I assumed Dem was in charge of the BT; though even before WH I leaned more towards indirect control. I still think that seems the most likely, especially given what that would mean with the Mesy, Semi, Dem alliance. But then I had a random, crazy thought.
Grany is certain--in the TGS prologue--that Dem would have an army as that is his way and his ability. But all the Randland forces and leaders seem to be accounted for; plus RJ's assertion as of COT that we had not seen Dem's alter-ego/Third Age persona on screen yet.
Following that assertion, in KoD, it is confirmed Shadowspawn can't Travel. So if Dem is gathering an army to come storming in on TG, it can't be an army of Trollocs.
We find out in TGS Dem's "rule is secure."
Now the crazy part: Earlier we found out that even Shara is in chaos and KoD shows us that some are even fleeing.
Could Dem have set himself up there? It seems far from the action, but he could still keep in touch and effect Randland through Semi, Mesy and Taim. Also, it would allow him to gather an army of men and channelers to come pouring out of Gateways at a most inopportune time.
Finally, could this fit BS's hint of a little thing being a big thing? We see a few hints about Shara in LoC and they are presented as something of an aside; but Dem leading a big mama-jama Sharan army would be a big thing indeed.
  #2  
Old 11-24-2009, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by isamu237 View Post
...all the Randland forces and leaders seem to be accounted for
The only one that isn't it Roedran of Murandy, hence the Roemandred theory.

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Originally Posted by isamu
Now the crazy part: Earlier we found out that even Shara is in chaos and KoD shows us that some are even fleeing.
Probably because Graendal stole their sh'boan and sh'botay. But then, of course, there's the sh'mandred theory too...
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  #3  
Old 11-24-2009, 06:03 PM
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....Roemandred?....Sh'omandred?....my head hurts now. Time for more vicodin.
The schnozberries taste like schnozberries.

Really don't think I like the Roemandred idea. His position is far too weak and we don't even know if it's even secure yet. The only very, very, VERY tenuous link I can see is Talmanes telling us in KOD that Roedy had found a copy of Sun Tz-, er, Comradin's book. Thus, if he suddenly starts kicking ass he has a viable excuse.
  #4  
Old 11-24-2009, 06:07 PM
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sh'mandred...hahaha

The facts do seem to point to Demandred masquerading as Roedran, but I'm not a big fan of it. The whole Forsaken-playing-king thing got old really fast after Rahvin, Sammael, and Be'lal all did it and failed miserably.

That's why I'm willing to embrace the sh'mandred idea, if only to protest Roemandred.
  #5  
Old 11-24-2009, 06:31 PM
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Has anyone ever thought about Demandred being among the Sea Folk?
  #6  
Old 11-24-2009, 06:50 PM
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Has anyone ever thought about Demandred being among the Sea Folk?
Drawback to that theory is that he's obviously able to Travel around and we surmise from Semirhage's inability to attend Forsaken Coffee Hours while she was enroute from Seanchan that it is difficult or impossible to Travel from a moving ship. (How can you know your starting point if the starting point is constantly moving?)
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  #7  
Old 11-24-2009, 07:29 PM
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Drawback to that theory is that he's obviously able to Travel around and we surmise from Semirhage's inability to attend Forsaken Coffee Hours while she was enroute from Seanchan that it is difficult or impossible to Travel from a moving ship. (How can you know your starting point if the starting point is constantly moving?)
How about Skimming?
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  #8  
Old 11-24-2009, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Weird Harold View Post
Drawback to that theory is that he's obviously able to Travel around and we surmise from Semirhage's inability to attend Forsaken Coffee Hours while she was enroute from Seanchan that it is difficult or impossible to Travel from a moving ship. (How can you know your starting point if the starting point is constantly moving?)
Oh dude, that's the easy part. How do you get back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by isamu237
Grany is certain--in the TGS prologue--that Dem would have an army as that is his way and his ability. But all the Randland forces and leaders seem to be accounted for; plus RJ's assertion as of COT that we had not seen Dem's alter-ego/Third Age persona on screen yet.
Army of Asha'man.
  #9  
Old 11-24-2009, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by reTaardad View Post
sh'mandred...hahaha

The facts do seem to point to Demandred masquerading as Roedran, but I'm not a big fan of it. The whole Forsaken-playing-king thing got old really fast after Rahvin, Sammael, and Be'lal all did it and failed miserably.

That's why I'm willing to embrace the sh'mandred idea, if only to protest Roemandred.
I assume by "facts" you mean wild speculation? Or did I miss something?
I like the Sh'mandred idea in part because it wouldn't exclude pulling the strings of the BT and being the power behind Taim.
  #10  
Old 11-24-2009, 08:28 PM
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I assume by "facts" you mean wild speculation? Or did I miss something?
I agree with this. I've read alot of theories (well one theory multiple times from multiple people!) and I fail to be convinced.

Kinda leaning to Seandred at the moment, even if only cause it reminds me of shaun of the dead...

Also, hello retaardad, long time no read. Did you ever get around to writing your theory on the nature of the one power/true power?

Last edited by Daekyras; 11-24-2009 at 08:32 PM.
  #11  
Old 11-24-2009, 10:00 PM
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How about Skimming?
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Oh dude, that's the easy part. How do you get back?
For whatever reason, Semirhage couldn't or wouldn't Travel from a ship at sea, but Logain demonstrated that you can Travel TO a ship by not touching the ship with the (exit) gateway.

IIRC, there is an RJ quote about Traveling to or from water.
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  #12  
Old 11-24-2009, 10:22 PM
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Logain Traveled to a docked ship--I wouldn't want to try that on anything moving.

As far as Shara is concerned, it's unlikely that controlling the Sh'boan/Sh'botay (which Graendal has already appropriated) actually gives you true control over Shara and its channelers. According to the BWB, it's likely the Ayyad themselves, as a society, that are the real power:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ
BWB, Shara:

The writer goes on to make some interesting charges, claiming that, instead of the Will of the Pattern being responsible for the monarchs’ deaths every seven years, they are actually killed by the Ayyad. Indeed, this document states that, unbeknownst to the people, the Ayyad are the real power in Shara.

The ruler is surrounded with Ayyad women as servants. The only way to approach Sh’boan or Sh’botay, especially for a favor or ruling, is through these women, and the reply is usually delivered by these same women. Actual speech with the Sh’boan or Sh’botay is reckoned a very great honor, rarely bestowed.

Some rulers have failed to live the full measure of their seven years - a failure taken as a sign of the Creator’s displeasure, causing penances served across the land by high and low alike. The writer states that it is more likely that these rulers discovered that, despite their great power, the real control of the land was in the hands of the Ayyad through the apparent “servant women” surrounding the ruler.
This makes it even less likely that the Sharans can be appropriated by a male channeler like Demandred.

I'm firmly in the Shara-won't-be-involved boat. Too late in the story to introduce a force with that much potential power.

Last edited by Yuri33; 11-24-2009 at 10:33 PM.
  #13  
Old 11-24-2009, 10:23 PM
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Also, hello retaardad, long time no read. Did you ever get around to writing your theory on the nature of the one power/true power?
Remind me of what you're talking about and I'll get on it. It's Thanksgiving break, so lack of school gives me infinite time to do all things WoT.
  #14  
Old 11-24-2009, 10:33 PM
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Logain Traveled to a docked ship--I wouldn't want to try that on anything moving.
It's only a matter of degree. Docked ships move with the waves and tide.

The problem with Traveling to or from water is that water is constantly changing and therefore any weave that requires you "know" that location won't work.
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Old 11-24-2009, 10:38 PM
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It seems like it's comparable to shooting a basketball into a hoop that's constantly spinning and moving up and down. Times 10 since it involves channeling.
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Old 11-24-2009, 11:21 PM
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Remind me of what you're talking about and I'll get on it. It's Thanksgiving break, so lack of school gives me infinite time to do all things WoT.
A couple of years ago now we had a thread/theory discussion going with a few others about the nature of the Power. I was likening it to electricity and suggesting that channelers were like conductors eg Rand is a very good conductor like silver and non-channelers were like insulators eg Tam is like wood. We actually got into some good science at one point talking about Sa'angreal as San Greal semi conducors etc..

You brought up the idea of True power and were going to stick a theory together about it. I then got side tracked with life, it's horriblr how that can happen and never got back to you about it..

Oh and since then I've made some small refinements on my own thoughts too. Could be fun to discuss.
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Old 11-25-2009, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by WH
The problem with Traveling to or from water is that water is constantly changing and therefore any weave that requires you "know" that location won't work.
Nah, just go into a cabin with no windows and you'll be fine.

Or can this not be done because of some OP Theory of General Relativity?
  #18  
Old 11-25-2009, 12:33 AM
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For whatever reason, Semirhage couldn't or wouldn't Travel from a ship at sea, but Logain demonstrated that you can Travel TO a ship by not touching the ship with the (exit) gateway.
Yeah, a docked ship, visible from shore. Which is something completely different than a ship somewhere on the ocean.

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It's only a matter of degree. Docked ships move with the waves and tide.
Did you know that everything is moving, at all times? Of course it's a matter of degree, what else could it possibly be? The major difference is that Logain could actually see the ship he was traveling too.

Last edited by Neilbert; 11-25-2009 at 12:36 AM.
  #19  
Old 11-25-2009, 01:27 AM
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Nah, just go into a cabin with no windows and you'll be fine.

Or can this not be done because of some OP Theory of General Relativity?
Like I said, RJ commented on Traveling from or to water and boats, I don't remember his exact explanation, and I can't use google docs, but it was related to Water constantly changing.
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  #20  
Old 11-25-2009, 01:47 AM
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Like I said, RJ commented on Traveling from or to water and boats, I don't remember his exact explanation, and I can't use google docs, but it was related to Water constantly changing.
I think after the book tour quotes are done coming in (some stormleaders are slow), I'll make a downloadable version. I just checked, and the links to the sources all transfer, so I should be able to make a nice PDF file of all of it. I shouldn't have to make an updated version until after the next book tour, which should be over a year from now. I'm hoping Brandon will do something like the TOR questions of the week (maybe Maria could do it!), but if that happens I'm sure everyone will be able to keep up with it.
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