art by =saintchase

Theoryland Resources

WoT Interview Search

Search the most comprehensive database of interviews and book signings from Robert Jordan, Brandon Sanderson and the rest of Team Jordan.

Wheel of Time News

An Hour With Harriet

2012-04-30: I had the great pleasure of speaking with Harriet McDougal Rigney about her life. She's an amazing talent and person and it will take you less than an hour to agree.

The Bell Tolls

2012-04-24: Some thoughts I had during JordanCon4 and the upcoming conclusion of "The Wheel of Time."

Theoryland Community

Members: 7611

Logged In (1): Brita,

Newest Members:johnroserking, petermorris, johnadanbvv, AndrewHB, jofwu, Salemcat1, Dhakatimesnews, amazingz, Sasooner, Hasib123,

Theoryland Tweets

Forums

Home | Chat | Old Forums(Yuku)


Go Back   Theoryland of the Wheel of Time Forums > THEORYLAND STEDDINGS > Forum Archives > Archived - WoT Discussion Boards > Archived: General Wheel of Time Discussion - 05/2008 - 03/2012
User Name
Password

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-24-2009, 10:16 PM
Daekyras's Avatar
Daekyras Daekyras is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,772
Daekyras has a reputation beyond reputeDaekyras has a reputation beyond reputeDaekyras has a reputation beyond reputeDaekyras has a reputation beyond reputeDaekyras has a reputation beyond reputeDaekyras has a reputation beyond reputeDaekyras has a reputation beyond reputeDaekyras has a reputation beyond reputeDaekyras has a reputation beyond reputeDaekyras has a reputation beyond reputeDaekyras has a reputation beyond repute
Post verisimilitude- a theory not a theory

There is a scene at the end of Howard Hawks' The Big Sleep in which an unseen assailant murders a chauffeur. This is hardly unusual for film noir but the scene is very famous for one reason- We never find out who did it. Raymond Chandler, on whose book the film is based, admitted that the plot had got the better of him and even HE didn't know whom the culprit was. Such an oversight would be the death of a lesser movie, but few who watch th big sleep notice the "mistake". The reason- Verisimilitude.

In film, it's impossible to explain everything. Characters interact, plot points are resolved but, due to time restrictions, some elements are inevitablly left unexplained. Whether these details pose a problem for the audience is down to the creation of an on-screen reality- the creation of verisimilitude. If a movie has a strong sense of reality, liberties can be taken without sacrificing believability. This is the secret of The Big Sleep where murder, vice and corruption are the norm. The killing of the chaffeur fits that reality perfectly and so the identity of the assailant becomes IRRELEVANT.

Now, I bet you can see where I am going with this- Asmodean.

We know he was killed. My thinking is that RJ (and now BS) has created such a real, living, vibrant reality, such a sense of verisimilitude that the killer is no longer important. In the world of Randland, such as it is, the killing is APT.

I enjoy the fact that there are so many thories as to the killers identity but I believe that we do not NEED to know who carried out the murder, just that it happened.

This website is a testament to the reality that Jordan has created and these theories have given even greater depth and energy to his already thriving world.

Unlike films, however, there are no limits to what can be explained in this series of books. I believe that if everything is finally explained this world could lose some of its hard earned wonder and vibrancy.

I fervently hope that, as such, this is one mystery that remains unresolved....

Have at it!!
  #2  
Old 11-24-2009, 10:33 PM
reTaardad's Avatar
reTaardad reTaardad is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 178
reTaardad is a jewel in the roughreTaardad is a jewel in the roughreTaardad is a jewel in the roughreTaardad is a jewel in the rough
Default

It's an interesting point of view (which I would bet many WoTers would be disgusted with), but the only problem is that Jordan verified that one theory that he read years ago on the internet was correct. Also, I doubt that Jordan would kill a semi-major character with that amount of intrigue and it end up being a non sequitur.
  #3  
Old 11-24-2009, 10:39 PM
Weird Harold's Avatar
Weird Harold Weird Harold is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: "Lost Wages," NV USA
Posts: 5,001
Weird Harold has a brilliant futureWeird Harold has a brilliant futureWeird Harold has a brilliant futureWeird Harold has a brilliant futureWeird Harold has a brilliant futureWeird Harold has a brilliant futureWeird Harold has a brilliant futureWeird Harold has a brilliant futureWeird Harold has a brilliant futureWeird Harold has a brilliant futureWeird Harold has a brilliant future
Default

You may be interested in joining Frenzy's faction/group: http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/...php?groupid=38
__________________
Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just figure out which questions they go to. )

I met you in a past life. You were wrong then, too.
  #4  
Old 11-24-2009, 11:39 PM
Daekyras's Avatar
Daekyras Daekyras is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,772
Daekyras has a reputation beyond reputeDaekyras has a reputation beyond reputeDaekyras has a reputation beyond reputeDaekyras has a reputation beyond reputeDaekyras has a reputation beyond reputeDaekyras has a reputation beyond reputeDaekyras has a reputation beyond reputeDaekyras has a reputation beyond reputeDaekyras has a reputation beyond reputeDaekyras has a reputation beyond reputeDaekyras has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weird Harold View Post
You may be interested in joining Frenzy's faction/group: http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/...php?groupid=38
Good idea Harold.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ReTaardad
It's an interesting point of view (which I would bet many WoTers would be disgusted with), but the only problem is that Jordan verified that one theory that he read years ago on the internet was correct. Also, I doubt that Jordan would kill a semi-major character with that amount of intrigue and it end up being a non sequitur.
reTaardad, I don't think Jordan made a mistake, just that not knowing makes things more interesting. kinda like anticipating something good is better than achieving or recieving it.

Also, Did he say that one theory was correct? ha, dos that rule out Graendal, Aviendha and the other usual suspects...?
  #5  
Old 11-24-2009, 11:48 PM
Terez's Avatar
Terez Terez is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Corn
Posts: 21,127
Terez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Terez
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daekyras View Post
Did he say that one theory was correct? ha, dos that rule out Graendal, Aviendha and the other usual suspects...?
I don't see how that statement would rule anyone out. But I agree with you - we don't need to know. If BS and Harriet change their minds and decide not to tell us, I won't care.
__________________
Qui nos rodunt confundantur, et cum iustis non scribantur.
@Terez27
  #6  
Old 11-25-2009, 12:17 AM
Yuri33 Yuri33 is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 500
Yuri33 is just really niceYuri33 is just really niceYuri33 is just really niceYuri33 is just really niceYuri33 is just really nice
Default

I only care to hear who Asmo's killer was as that will cut down on Asmo thread spam.

I had hopes we could cut down on real/construct spam as well, but it seems that there will never be a definitive word from above.
  #7  
Old 11-25-2009, 01:32 AM
Terez's Avatar
Terez Terez is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Corn
Posts: 21,127
Terez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Terez
Default

Have you seen the tag cloud?

lol...I'd rather debate Lews Therin any day over Asmodean, for two reasons:

1. It involves tons more evidence, so there is more to talk about.

2. It actually has a meaningful impact on the interpretation of the story. Some say otherwise, but it's pretty hard to argue that who killed Asmodean has any real impact on the story.
__________________
Qui nos rodunt confundantur, et cum iustis non scribantur.
@Terez27
  #8  
Old 11-25-2009, 08:53 AM
Bonzi77 Bonzi77 is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 186
Bonzi77 is a jewel in the roughBonzi77 is a jewel in the roughBonzi77 is a jewel in the roughBonzi77 is a jewel in the rough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez View Post
Have you seen the tag cloud?

lol...I'd rather debate Lews Therin any day over Asmodean, for two reasons:

1. It involves tons more evidence, so there is more to talk about.

2. It actually has a meaningful impact on the interpretation of the story. Some say otherwise, but it's pretty hard to argue that who killed Asmodean has any real impact on the story.
Exactly. I really think we'd know who killed Asmodean by now if it hadn't become such an on-line debate. I think once people got really into arguing about it, RJ just decided to have a little fun with us by keeping it a secret.
__________________
http://lifeofbonzi.blogspot.com
  #9  
Old 11-25-2009, 09:30 AM
SauceyBlueConfetti's Avatar
SauceyBlueConfetti SauceyBlueConfetti is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Michigan! the Mitten!
Posts: 2,097
SauceyBlueConfetti has a reputation beyond reputeSauceyBlueConfetti has a reputation beyond reputeSauceyBlueConfetti has a reputation beyond reputeSauceyBlueConfetti has a reputation beyond reputeSauceyBlueConfetti has a reputation beyond reputeSauceyBlueConfetti has a reputation beyond reputeSauceyBlueConfetti has a reputation beyond reputeSauceyBlueConfetti has a reputation beyond reputeSauceyBlueConfetti has a reputation beyond reputeSauceyBlueConfetti has a reputation beyond reputeSauceyBlueConfetti has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Yahoo to SauceyBlueConfetti
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez View Post
I don't see how that statement would rule anyone out. But I agree with you - we don't need to know. If BS and Harriet change their minds and decide not to tell us, I won't care.
Totally Agree. I actually would have preferred never to know, but that likely will not be the result here.
__________________
the Sun Dreamer, the Slade Believer, the Last Love Song on this Little Planet ...Firseal
Oh Xxxxx, do you have to leave so soon? I was just about to poison your tea.
LAST WORD -- (so it is clear I got The Last Word in)
Yeah. Murderous Saucey. My superhero name
I am Detroit. You REALLY wanna call me wimpy?
Haphazardly Spell & Fact Checked Since June 2001
  #10  
Old 11-25-2009, 11:41 AM
Bonzi77 Bonzi77 is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 186
Bonzi77 is a jewel in the roughBonzi77 is a jewel in the roughBonzi77 is a jewel in the roughBonzi77 is a jewel in the rough
Default

I'm almost to the point where I'd rather not know who killed Asmodean. It's almost certainly going to be a let down. Anyone who guessed right will be like "yeah, I knew that, nice" and everyone else will think it's lame. It won't advance the story in any way unless there's some far ranging implications I'm missing.

It won't be as interesting, for example as finding out what Verin was up to, which was a smaller mystery, but that reveal effected the furthering of the plot.
__________________
http://lifeofbonzi.blogspot.com
  #11  
Old 11-25-2009, 06:22 PM
Terez's Avatar
Terez Terez is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Corn
Posts: 21,127
Terez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Terez
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonzi77 View Post
I'm almost to the point where I'd rather not know who killed Asmodean. It's almost certainly going to be a let down. Anyone who guessed right will be like "yeah, I knew that, nice" and everyone else will think it's lame. It won't advance the story in any way unless there's some far ranging implications I'm missing.
That's why, when I do argue Asmodean, I argue Aviendha. She's the only one that, if we found out it was her, I'd be like 'actually that's pretty cool and makes me consider a major character in a different way'. Everyone else is just...meh. A Forsaken kills another Forsaken? Who gives a shit? Slayer? It's his freaking job to kill people, yawn.
__________________
Qui nos rodunt confundantur, et cum iustis non scribantur.
@Terez27
  #12  
Old 11-26-2009, 03:10 AM
Matoyak's Avatar
Matoyak Matoyak is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Texas - USA
Posts: 1,355
Matoyak is a glorious beacon of lightMatoyak is a glorious beacon of lightMatoyak is a glorious beacon of lightMatoyak is a glorious beacon of lightMatoyak is a glorious beacon of lightMatoyak is a glorious beacon of lightMatoyak is a glorious beacon of light
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez View Post
yawn.
That's how I feel about the debate over the details of LTT. (Hence my soon-to-exist apathy faction. ~le sigh~)

As far as the debate about Asmo, I don't argue for any particular one. I simply argue AGAINST certain ones (Mostly due to feeling that said ones are lame and/or stretch credibility beyond what should be done, IMO)
To me, the more interesting thing won't be WHO killed whoever it was, but WHY. (The whole motive thingy)
__________________
*Official Labrat of the TCA*
The Red Hand of Devil's End, the Blight of Bayside, the Filer of Forbidden Texts

[Gawyn] probably pops his collar. - Kivo
Mat's hat is a Darkfriend. - Daekyras
  #13  
Old 11-26-2009, 04:24 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 15,818
GonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matoyak View Post
To me, the more interesting thing won't be WHO killed whoever it was, but WHY. (The whole motive thingy)
Including the motive for hanging out in that particular pantry, of course.
  #14  
Old 11-26-2009, 03:47 PM
jason wolfbrother's Avatar
jason wolfbrother jason wolfbrother is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: California
Posts: 534
jason wolfbrother has disabled reputation
Send a message via AIM to jason wolfbrother Send a message via MSN to jason wolfbrother Send a message via Yahoo to jason wolfbrother
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
Including the motive for hanging out in that particular pantry, of course.
It is intuitively obvious to the most casual observer...that that pantry had some really good canned yams
__________________
Bonded to yks
Lord of the Southern Border, the Mountain Breaker, the Keeper of the Frog Shaped Hole Punch

Wash:"Things are about to get interesting"
Mal:"Define interesting..."
Wash:"Oh God! Oh God! We're all gonna die!?"

"If you are not living life on the edge, you are taking up too much space"
  #15  
Old 11-28-2009, 11:44 AM
Matoyak's Avatar
Matoyak Matoyak is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Texas - USA
Posts: 1,355
Matoyak is a glorious beacon of lightMatoyak is a glorious beacon of lightMatoyak is a glorious beacon of lightMatoyak is a glorious beacon of lightMatoyak is a glorious beacon of lightMatoyak is a glorious beacon of lightMatoyak is a glorious beacon of light
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason wolfbrother View Post
good canned yams
OXYMORON!
__________________
*Official Labrat of the TCA*
The Red Hand of Devil's End, the Blight of Bayside, the Filer of Forbidden Texts

[Gawyn] probably pops his collar. - Kivo
Mat's hat is a Darkfriend. - Daekyras
 

Tags
apathy, apathy killed asmodean, asmodean


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.