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Go Back   Theoryland of the Wheel of Time Forums > THEORYLAND STEDDINGS > Forum Archives > Archived - WoT Discussion Boards > Book 12: The Gathering Storm
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  #1  
Old 11-27-2009, 05:59 PM
isamu237 isamu237 is offline
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I'm on my second read of TGS, and I ended up reading Chapter 15 (A Place To Begin) twice last night. It occurs to me that this may be the most important chapter in the book. There's something about the meeting of Rand and Moridin, both the setting and content, that I can't quite put my finger on. I just feel like I'm missing something, and something important.
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  #2  
Old 11-27-2009, 06:02 PM
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Read the bit about the curtains again. Very carefully.

I missed it the first few times.
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  #3  
Old 11-27-2009, 06:55 PM
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Curtains?
  #4  
Old 11-27-2009, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isamu237 View Post
I'm on my second read of TGS, and I ended up reading Chapter 15 (A Place To Begin) twice last night. It occurs to me that this may be the most important chapter in the book.
I got the same feeling. A few important things were covered in that chapter.
1. Rand intends to actually destroy the Dark One. That's pretty new.
2. Moridin confirms that the link is strengthening; he can feel Rand's pain, and he suspects that if one kills the other, the other will die also.
3. Rand and Min argue real vs. construct.
4. Rand claims belief in barrier degradation.
5. Rand believes that Lews Therin's memories will give him what he needs to defeat the Dark One.

etc. That's just off the top of my head, but I know there was more good stuff in there...I have been waiting for Rand to figure out who his 'other one' was for a while now.
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  #5  
Old 11-27-2009, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Terez View Post
I got the same feeling. A few important things were covered in that chapter.
1. Rand intends to actually destroy the Dark One. That's pretty new.
2. Moridin confirms that the link is strengthening; he can feel Rand's pain, and he suspects that if one kills the other, the other will die also.
3. Rand and Min argue real vs. construct.
4. Rand claims belief in barrier degradation.
5. Rand believes that Lews Therin's memories will give him what he needs to defeat the Dark One.

etc. That's just off the top of my head, but I know there was more good stuff in there...I have been waiting for Rand to figure out who his 'other one' was for a while now.
but contrary to Kurtz' advice, there are no curtains in that chapter.

(FWIW, the word curtain(s) only appears once in tGS, and that is when Mat returns to Hinderstap the morning after.)
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  #6  
Old 11-27-2009, 08:18 PM
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Yes, well...Kurtz was being facetious, I'm sure. I'll give him some extra credit and assume he was making a reference to the curtains of the abandoned village in book 1.
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  #7  
Old 11-27-2009, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Terez View Post
Yes, well...Kurtz was being facetious, I'm sure. I'll give him some extra credit and assume he was making a reference to the curtains of the abandoned village in book 1.
You mean book 2 right? Fain's timeloop trap?
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  #8  
Old 11-27-2009, 08:32 PM
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You mean book 2 right? Fain's timeloop trap?
Nope. Book 1, between the Waygate and Fal Dara.
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  #9  
Old 11-27-2009, 08:35 PM
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I just reread that chapter twice looking for curtains...
  #10  
Old 11-27-2009, 08:37 PM
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Nope. Book 1, between the Waygate and Fal Dara.
Why would those curtains have any significance?
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  #11  
Old 11-27-2009, 10:12 PM
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Yeah, Terez, all big and important stuff. But it seems like there's something under the surface I'm just not seeing. A deeper meaning to Rand being there in the first place.

On an unrelated note, did anyone else notice parallels between Ch22 (The Last That Could Be Done) and 1984?
  #12  
Old 11-28-2009, 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Ieyasu View Post
Why would those curtains have any significance?
lol...because they signified that the villagers had abandoned their homes recently. It was a small detail that meant something.

I haven't read 1984. I tried to a few times, but couldn't get into it. Anyway, you're talking about some sort of hidden reason why Rand showed up in Moridin's dream? Did you see the quote where Brandon says that Rand's and Moridin's souls are often woven together, like Birgitte and Gaidal? That, along with the link between them, seems enough reason to me.

I wonder if Rand is going to win Moridin over to the Light! It would be a neat ending, for Moridin to go out somewhat like Ingtar. But there aren't any prophecies hinting at it from what I can see, other than Rand's horse.
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  #13  
Old 11-28-2009, 04:57 AM
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Perhaps Rand was once again stuffed into Ba'alzamon's presence by the Creator. That's happened before (at the Eye of the World), and it was in the same chamber which he visited then.
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Old 11-28-2009, 07:43 AM
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I keep thinking it was all manipulation from Moridin. Moving or controlling the Fisher piece to a particular location.

Just so happen there was two chairs, one for Moridin and one for his "surprise" visitor.

Moridin just so happen to mention that he is annoyed with Semirhage, and that balefire would be the thing to use if killing forsaken were your kind of thing.

And shockingly, Rand uses balefire to kill Semirhage, apparently through his link with Moridin. Even seeing his face before getting hold of TP (iīm assuming its Moridin anyway, i doubt it is Mat..)


Oh..and how come Rands "pieces" fit together at that meeting? He sounds like his personalities have merged (or what you want to call it) when he uses Moridins real first name:

Quote:
"Is that what made you turn to his side?" Rand asked. "You were always so full of thoughts, Elan. Your logic destroyed you, didnīt it?"
Lews Therin was gone, Rand states so when he talkes to Min later.
And Moridin specifically states that the great Lord could grant him sanity, and Rand replies with another Lews Therin memory and muses that he feels more stable.
  #15  
Old 11-28-2009, 08:30 AM
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The pieces of himself fit together better there because it's Tel'aran'rhiod. It was the same when he went there before in the flesh, and it was the same with Birgitte returned there after having been ripped out.
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  #16  
Old 11-28-2009, 08:42 AM
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The pieces of himself fit together better there because it's Tel'aran'rhiod. It was the same when he went there before in the flesh, and it was the same with Birgitte returned there after having been ripped out.
ie if TAR is a reflection of all worlds quite a few of the Rand's out there might be doing better, ergo he's doing better...either that or his subconscious is better put together then he is. Or I'm just making stuff up as I go along. I might make a poll.

Actually, I hate polls, so screw that idea.
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  #17  
Old 11-28-2009, 09:36 AM
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ie if TAR is a reflection of all worlds quite a few of the Rand's out there might be doing better, ergo he's doing better...
Tel'aran'rhiod is not a reflection of all worlds; the other worlds all have different reflections. I'm talking more about the fact that Heroes go to Tel'aran'rhiod in the afterlife, and remember all of their lives there.
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  #18  
Old 11-28-2009, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by RadinReborn View Post
I keep thinking it was all manipulation from Moridin. Moving or controlling the Fisher piece to a particular location.
How you interpret the passage depends on how many personalities you think are involved. Rand and Moridin could be manipulated by LT. But it is doubtful LT and Rand could be manipulated by Moridin in this fashion.
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Old 11-28-2009, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by isamu237 View Post
I'm on my second read of TGS, and I ended up reading Chapter 15 (A Place To Begin) twice last night. It occurs to me that this may be the most important chapter in the book. There's something about the meeting of Rand and Moridin, both the setting and content, that I can't quite put my finger on. I just feel like I'm missing something, and something important.
Thoughts?
Comments?
Name-calling?
The only thing I've got for you is that it's the same exact room / hallway with many doors from Rand's initial meeting with Ishy in The Eye of the World.
  #20  
Old 11-28-2009, 04:08 PM
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I think Rand's planned killing of the Dark One needs more discussion. Could he even attempt such a thing without destroying the pattern, which would give the Dark One the victory he wants?
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