art by =saintchase

Theoryland Resources

WoT Interview Search

Search the most comprehensive database of interviews and book signings from Robert Jordan, Brandon Sanderson and the rest of Team Jordan.

Wheel of Time News

An Hour With Harriet

2012-04-30: I had the great pleasure of speaking with Harriet McDougal Rigney about her life. She's an amazing talent and person and it will take you less than an hour to agree.

The Bell Tolls

2012-04-24: Some thoughts I had during JordanCon4 and the upcoming conclusion of "The Wheel of Time."

Theoryland Community

Members: 7611

Logged In (0):

Newest Members:johnroserking, petermorris, johnadanbvv, AndrewHB, jofwu, Salemcat1, Dhakatimesnews, amazingz, Sasooner, Hasib123,

Theoryland Tweets

Forums

Home | Chat | Old Forums(Yuku)


Go Back   Theoryland of the Wheel of Time Forums > THEORYLAND STEDDINGS > Forum Archives > Archived - WoT Discussion Boards > Book 12: The Gathering Storm
User Name
Password

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-23-2010, 09:38 AM
Tamyrlin Tamyrlin is offline
Lord of the Board
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,020
Tamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Tamyrlin
Default Twitter Posts: Taim, WH, TP and other stuff

So, assuming you lazy bums do not follow my Twitter and Facebook feeds, I thought I'd post this here for discussion.

So, I wrote this:

Quote:
Reading Winter's Heart - a passage caught my eye, leaving me with this question: when did Taim first use the True Power?


Peter wrote this:

Quote:
Someone mentioned something similar to this to Brandon on Twitter this week, and Brandon responded.
Then I explained my point this way:

Quote:
I'm considering a theory that the darkness seen around Rand is connected to his use of the True Power. Then, in Winter's heart prologue, Elayne describes Taim as he entered her room: "He was tall, nearly as tall as Rand, with a hooked nose and dark eyes like augurs, a physically powerful man who moved with something of a ... See MoreWarder's deadly grace, but shadows seemed to follow him, as if half the lamps in the room had gone out; not real shadows, but an air of imminent violence that seemed palpable enough to soak up light." I jokingly connected those two and then wondered if Taim had channeled the True Power. Speculation built on speculation, wrapped in a dark shadow.
Peter wrote this:

Quote:
The quote referred to Taim, WH, and the dark aura, and related it to TGS. Brandon just said something like he was wondering when anyone was going to notice that.

But I'll leave finding the exact interaction to you.
Luckers wrote this:

Quote:
Brandon's answer when someone pointed out the similarity between Taim and Rand was @HBFFerreira You're the first to notice that that I've seen.
So then I went and looked up @HBFFerreira, who wrote this a day or two ago:

Quote:
Thanks! TGS: Rand's dark aura was an effect of channeling TP, right? WH, prologue: didn't Taim cast a similar aura?

"... shadows seemed to follow him, as if half the lamps in the room had gone out. Not real shadows, but..." So... RAFO? :-)

I'm re-reading the series, and just started WH. The effect was awfully familiar to Rand's. Not a coincidence, I guess. :-)
My read on it - my inclination and apparently others to tie the dark aura to Rand's channeling the TP looks to be on target (although, this connection is pretty...obvious as it comes about immediately after he channels it...so not a huge accomplishment by any means to connect the two.) However, while I like to make seemingly thin connections between events and in most cases, this connection that I made and that HBFFerreira appears to have made two days prior, from Brandon's response, would seem to also be on target. Although, not a terribly huge stretch either - Taim having channeled the True Power. However, it would suggest it came prior to Taim entering that room - which now makes me want to go back and read prior to it to see if we are shown that moment, without realizing it. Something happening that couldn't be or wasn't detected (I can just hear Taim Killed Asmodean theorists now ).

So, the theory remains, Taim has channeled the True Power, but Brandon has helped the theory along with his tweet. Surely, Taim using the True Power will come into play during these last two books.
  #2  
Old 07-23-2010, 09:44 AM
Oatman's Avatar
Oatman Oatman is offline
Ancient
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 403
Oatman is just really niceOatman is just really niceOatman is just really niceOatman is just really niceOatman is just really niceOatman is just really nice
Default

It's possible. But isnt there a passage where it is mentioned that Moridin has exclusive use of the TP at the moment? Maybe it was that he used it exclusively though... whatever.
Either way, I was under the impression that not all the forsaken currently have access to the TP, else Moggy and Sem could have escaped captivity immediately(Asmo excluded because of black line severing.) It would be kind of wierd for Taim to have access when they don't.
__________________
You can't do something you haven't yet done differently to how it will come to be done.

"From the Oatman Prophecies."

Writer of the Breakfast Prophecies for the Lord of the Morning

RS is an idiot.
  #3  
Old 07-23-2010, 09:48 AM
Tamyrlin Tamyrlin is offline
Lord of the Board
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,020
Tamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Tamyrlin
Default Well

Connection between Taim and Moridin can be theorized - so you could go Taim as Padawan to Moridin. However, while the incident of True Power usage would have come before Ishamael was named Nae'blis, I don't see that the DO wouldn't allow access to it to those he chooses. From quotes from RJ, it's a matter of wanting access and the DO allowing - I don't think there is some way for Moridin to stop the DO from giving Taim access.
  #4  
Old 07-23-2010, 09:55 AM
Oatman's Avatar
Oatman Oatman is offline
Ancient
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 403
Oatman is just really niceOatman is just really niceOatman is just really niceOatman is just really niceOatman is just really niceOatman is just really nice
Default

Connection or not, Ishmael isnt the one who grants access so that really shouldnt matter.
The DO granting it to those he chooses is pretty much my point. He has his chosen forsaken, yet so far as we know only one of them currently has access to the TP. If he hasn't granted it to the, why grant it to Taim? Obviously it's possible, but to me at least he is way down the list of potential users.
__________________
You can't do something you haven't yet done differently to how it will come to be done.

"From the Oatman Prophecies."

Writer of the Breakfast Prophecies for the Lord of the Morning

RS is an idiot.
  #5  
Old 07-23-2010, 10:03 AM
Terez's Avatar
Terez Terez is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Corn
Posts: 21,127
Terez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Terez
Default

Well, there's always Linda's Taimidin theory...
__________________
Qui nos rodunt confundantur, et cum iustis non scribantur.
@Terez27
  #6  
Old 07-23-2010, 10:31 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 15,820
GonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oatman View Post
But isnt there a passage where it is mentioned that Moridin has exclusive use of the TP at the moment?
Yes, there is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KoD, Chapter 3, At the Gardens
“Nevertheless, Sammael, or someone disguised as him, gave orders to Myrddraal, and they obeyed, so it was one of the Chosen.” Moridin scanned around the chairs as though he could detect who it had been. Black saa trickled across his blue eyes in a continuous stream. She had no regrets that the True Power was limited to his use alone, now. The price was much too high. Ishamael had certainly been at least half insane, and he still was as Moridin. How long before she could remove him?
That's a bit after the relevant Taim quote, of course, so it does not say much about what Taim may have done right before he came to ogle Elayne.
  #7  
Old 07-23-2010, 10:59 AM
Tamyrlin Tamyrlin is offline
Lord of the Board
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,020
Tamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Tamyrlin
Default DO decides

Quote:
She had no regrets that the True Power was limited to his use alone, now.
As far as she knows, she is not allowed to use it and it is her understanding that Moridin alone can use it - which says nothing about whom the DO will allow to use it should the request be made.
  #8  
Old 07-23-2010, 11:26 AM
Tamyrlin Tamyrlin is offline
Lord of the Board
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,020
Tamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Tamyrlin
Default If Taim did use the TP?

When did it happen? Did we "see" it?
  #9  
Old 07-23-2010, 11:38 AM
Luckers Luckers is offline
Dragonmount Admin
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 143
Luckers is just really niceLuckers is just really niceLuckers is just really niceLuckers is just really niceLuckers is just really niceLuckers is just really nice
Default

A more detailed account from what I sent you on facebook.

Quote:
HBFFerreira: @BrandonSandrson I'm re-reading the series, and just started WH. The effect was awfully familiar to Rand's. Not a coincidence, I guess. :-)

@HBFFerreira You're the first to notice that that I've seen.

HBFFerreira: @BrandonSandrson Thanks! TGS: Rand's dark aura was an effect of channeling TP, right? WH, prologue: didn't Taim cast a similar aura?

HBFFerreira: @BrandonSandrson "... shadows seemed to follow him, as if half the lamps in the room had gone out. Not real shadows, but..." So... RAFO? :-)

Last edited by Luckers; 07-23-2010 at 11:54 AM.
  #10  
Old 07-23-2010, 11:47 AM
Kimon's Avatar
Kimon Kimon is offline
Ancient
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 3,311
Kimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamyrlin View Post
When did it happen? Did we "see" it?
Slayer's mystery man would certainly seem a possibility. I'm not sure if the chronology would exactly match, but it should be close, and of course, Slayer obviously had to meet the mystery man at least twice- once to receive the mission, and again to report its failure. If Taim is using the TP, he probably isn't using it often as the appearance of the saa would become very problematic for a man pretending to be a lightfriend.

Pevara notes that there was an "air of darkness" around Taim in the epilogue of KoD as well, and of course the eyes like augers.

Last edited by Kimon; 07-23-2010 at 11:56 AM.
  #11  
Old 07-23-2010, 11:52 AM
Tamyrlin Tamyrlin is offline
Lord of the Board
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,020
Tamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Tamyrlin
Default Actually

Quote:
BrandonSandrson: @HBFFerreira RAFO, though that is the best theory I read before I became involved in this. It's very credible.
This relates to a different question @HBFFerreira wrote. If you notice, Brandon's response occurs 5:58 PM Jul 19th via TweetDeck in reply to HBFFerreira

Here is @HBFFerreira's initial question @BrandonSandrson Was the attempt on Rand at the end of TPoD caused by Torval learning his plan to cleanse the taint? Did Moridin order it? 4:03 AM Jul 18th via web in reply to BrandonSandrson
  #12  
Old 07-23-2010, 11:54 AM
Luckers Luckers is offline
Dragonmount Admin
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 143
Luckers is just really niceLuckers is just really niceLuckers is just really niceLuckers is just really niceLuckers is just really niceLuckers is just really nice
Default

Ah. Removed it to save confusion.
  #13  
Old 07-23-2010, 11:56 AM
Tamyrlin Tamyrlin is offline
Lord of the Board
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,020
Tamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Tamyrlin
Default Right, I'm guessing he has only used it once or twice

Meeting with Slayer - could be, but why wouldn't he use Saidin to hide his presence?
  #14  
Old 07-23-2010, 12:01 PM
WinespringBrother's Avatar
WinespringBrother WinespringBrother is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,889
WinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant future
Send a message via AIM to WinespringBrother
Default

Interesting theory. The only comment I have is that I don't think it supports Taim killed Asmodean, evidence-wise, since the first mention that there is a True Power isn't until ACOS:

Quote:
TITLE: Crown of Swords CH: 20 - Patterns Within Patterns

The watcher followed and listened. They had no idea. The True Power, drawn directly from the Great Lord, could neither be seen nor detected except by who wielded it. Black flecks floated across his vision. There was a price, to be sure, one that grew with each use, but he had always been willing to pay the price when it was necessary. Being filled with the True Power was almost like kneeling beneath Shayol Ghul, basking in the Great Lord's glory. The glory was worth the pain.
__________________
Mera'Daghain M'hael

"Oh, y'all [Theorylanders] are awesome with awesome sauce, but you ask a lot of tricky questions. I had to watch myself with you guys." - Maria

"I need to RAFO more things, I'm not being very Robert Jordan..." - Brandon
  #15  
Old 07-23-2010, 12:03 PM
Tamyrlin Tamyrlin is offline
Lord of the Board
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,020
Tamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Tamyrlin
Default I agree

I don't think the DO would allow Taim access to then kill Asmodean in such a way that would prevent him access to the soul of this traitor.
  #16  
Old 07-23-2010, 12:05 PM
Kimon's Avatar
Kimon Kimon is offline
Ancient
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 3,311
Kimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamyrlin View Post
Meeting with Slayer - could be, but why wouldn't he use Saidin to hide his presence?
Slayer's description of the psychological effects of the weaves seems odd in of itself.

Quote:
His patron of the moment was waiting for him. A man, he was sure of that much, but Luc could not look at him. It was not as it was with those slimy Gray Men, whom you just did not notice. He had killed one of them, once, in the White Tower itself. They felt cold and empty to the touch. It had been like killing a corpse. No, this man had done something with the Power so Luc's eyes slid from him like water sliding down glass. Even at the corner of the eye, he was a blur.
This sounds like something more than just a similar, albeit, saidin variant, of what Mesaana uses to conceal herself. Perhaps he wrapped himself in TP.
  #17  
Old 07-23-2010, 12:08 PM
Luckers Luckers is offline
Dragonmount Admin
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 143
Luckers is just really niceLuckers is just really niceLuckers is just really niceLuckers is just really niceLuckers is just really niceLuckers is just really nice
Default

I think we're jumping the gun to conclude this means TP touching. We've met many Forsaken, whom have touched the TP, without seeing the warping.

I wonder if this is not more of a subverion of ones soul. In effect once you open yourself to the Dark One enough he can warp you. I mean it seems unlikely that all the Shadows servants from the Age of Legends were meglomaniacal monsters. Modern Darkfriends are nasty coz that's how recruitment occurs, but back then it was different.

Could this be the tainting effect of the Dark One on those who have walked deep enough in shadow to expose themselves?
  #18  
Old 07-23-2010, 12:09 PM
Kimon's Avatar
Kimon Kimon is offline
Ancient
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 3,311
Kimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I wonder if the references to eyes like augers, which admittedly does not always come with people who could be using the TP, is nonetheless a hint at its use. An auger is after all a tool used for boring, and the TP links one to the Bore and to the DO. Almost as if the word itself was a subtle hint that when we look into their eyes, it is the Bore that we see.
  #19  
Old 07-23-2010, 12:18 PM
Tamyrlin Tamyrlin is offline
Lord of the Board
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,020
Tamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Tamyrlin
Default There are other explanations

Quote:
I think we're jumping the gun to conclude this means TP touching. We've met many Forsaken, whom have touched the TP, without seeing the warping.
The curiosity is more an exercise of "if". However, what you have brought up doesn't discount the possibility, as the darkness/shadow might be indicative of recent usage of the TP, versus totality of usage. Rand notices a darkness around Ishamael while fighting him at the Stone, another possible connection.

Quote:
Could this be the tainting effect of the Dark One on those who have walked deep enough in shadow to expose themselves?
It could be - although, as you mentioned, if this were the case wouldn't the other Forsaken have similar characteristics? I say this acknowledging that the author doesn't have to give us such awareness from the PoV of those looking at Forsaken if he chooses not to - so by itself, it isn't proof either way.
  #20  
Old 07-23-2010, 12:19 PM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 15,820
GonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I don't think there have been any claims of such a Darkness around the lady Selene, for instance. Hurin did smell that something was dodgy, though.
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.