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  #1  
Old 11-18-2010, 09:26 PM
shepherd79 shepherd79 is offline
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Default Will Jain Farstrider answer the call of the horn?

given that Jain seems to be one of the most famous and heroic people of the current age, does anybody else think he might come back in the final book when Mat blows the horn?
  #2  
Old 11-18-2010, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by shepherd79 View Post
given that Jain seems to be one of the most famous and heroic people of the current age, does anybody else think he might come back in the final book when Mat blows the horn?
Well, he doesn't have a cape, so I doubt it.



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  #3  
Old 11-19-2010, 09:41 PM
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Default New Heroes

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Originally Posted by shepherd79 View Post
given that Jain seems to be one of the most famous and heroic people of the current age, does anybody else think he might come back in the final book when Mat blows the horn?
Being tied to the Horn is based on self-sacrifice IIRC, Jain will come to the Horn, and so will Verin.
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  #4  
Old 11-20-2010, 04:37 AM
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Not not everyone gets bound to the Wheel. They both might answer the call but hard to say.
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Old 11-20-2010, 07:04 AM
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I hadn't really thought about it but it seems to make sense he would be tied to the wheel after all he was a heroic old sod. That would be a funny conversation with mat after he blew the horn at TG if he is bound to the wheel now.
  #6  
Old 11-20-2010, 07:14 AM
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Not all heroes are Heroes
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  #7  
Old 11-20-2010, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Jokeslayer View Post
Not all heroes are Heroes
True enough but he did sacrifice himself to get Moiraine and the others out of ToG and TG cant be won without 2 of those 3 for sure so I think he quilifies for Hero Status
  #8  
Old 11-22-2010, 11:15 AM
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Simply?-Yes. Will find the quote and edit, but bottom line Jain died clean. As epic an adventure as any.
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Old 11-22-2010, 11:19 AM
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Default Awesome!

More importantly, and way, way cooler, will Ingtar answer the call of the Horn? of Valere.
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  #10  
Old 11-22-2010, 11:24 AM
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Default Jain and the HornSounder

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Originally Posted by shepherd79 View Post
given that Jain seems to be one of the most famous and heroic people of the current age, does anybody else think he might come back in the final book when Mat blows the horn?
Old Jain DID die to save the current HornSounder Himself. (As well as a couple of others.)
Maybe traveling with Mat so long gave him some sort of attachment.
  #11  
Old 11-22-2010, 11:41 AM
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I would like to see Ingtar and Verin again, but I don't think they'd qualify. Ingtar did what he did for self redemption(Not saying he didn't do it for everyone else, but I think it was mainly for redemption). So I'm not sure if his deed would be found worthy.

Verin sacraficed herself and don't think she was seeking redemption because she was doing what she saw as right the whole time, but she did admit to doing some bad things, though she never said what exactly she did. But aside from that, I don't know how a channeler could be a Heroe because the OP cannot touch the dead. What would she do? Throw rocks or fight with her fists? But I might be wrong. Maybe the dead could still channel but not be not be attacked by the OP.

I'm not saying they won't be and if I'm wrong I'll jump for joy. I just don't think they would qualify.
  #12  
Old 11-22-2010, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Jokeslayer View Post
Not all heroes are Heroes
This.

Just because we love them doesn't mean that they're the souls that Pattern needs to keep bound to the Wheel. It's not just about self-sacrifice, Birgitte shows us that, as do her descriptions of Gaidal.

Verin and Ingtar's sacrifices - while glorious - bring them back to zero. Maybe. Same with Farstrider. You did bad things, and you do one final good thing. It doesn't tip yo uover the scale, it brings you back to evens if you're lucky.
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  #13  
Old 12-30-2010, 12:55 PM
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Default Ok, glad I searched the forum before posting

my own highly original thoughts upon finishing ToM....

Jain Farstrider will be a Horn Hero....and I'd love to see it when Mat toots the thing and up pops Noal. The guy was one fine fighter in his younger days, remember, and not too shabby even as a geezer. And I would regard his epics as a positive part of his hero resume.

And, hi, everyone.
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  #14  
Old 12-30-2010, 02:26 PM
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I think it's at least somewhat likely. Farstrider was Compelled, most likely, so I don't think Ingtar is necessarily a good comparison. Verin maybe, since she did so much damage to the Shadow's plans. But Farstrider seems to have all the marks of a Hero, from his arrest of Fairheart in Malkier to his travels around the world to his sacrifice at Ghenjei.
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Old 12-30-2010, 05:08 PM
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Default Verin was Santhra in another Life. A Hero or Not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez View Post
Verin maybe, since she did so much damage to the Shadow's plans. But Farstrider seems to have all the marks of a Hero, from his arrest of Fairheart in Malkier to his travels around the world to his sacrifice at Ghenjei.

Verin might not wear a Cape... however the historical Santhra sounding awfully like who Verin was in her actions.

Quote:
“Whatever it is, you don’t even seem to know where to look.” Vandene shifted some of the books and manuscripts on the table, shaking her head. “So many subjects. The Trolloc Wars. The Watchers Over the Waves. The legend of the Return. Two treatises on the Horn of Valere. Three on dark prophecy, and—Light, here’s Santhra’s book on the Forsaken. Nasty, that. As nasty as this on Shadar Logoth. And the Prophecies of the Dragon, in three translations and the original. Moiraine, whatever are you after? The Prophecies, I can understand—we hear some news here, remote as we are. We hear some of what’s happening in Illian. There’s even a rumor in the village that someone has already found the Horn.” She gestured with a manuscript on the Horn, and coughed in the dust that rose from it. “I discount that, of course. There would be rumors. But what—? No. You said you wanted privacy, and I’ll give it to you.”


The Great Hunt, Chapter 22 "Watchers" -- Moiraine point of view; with Vandene (twin sister of Adeleas)
One wrote a book on the topic of the Black Ajah, another on the Forsaken.
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  #16  
Old 12-30-2010, 05:22 PM
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But would Farstrider want to become a Hero? Undoubtedly it's a great honor to be chosen, but it also means they have to spend all their time in T'A'R and never get to join their loved ones in the regular afterlife. Birgitte and Gaidal are the only lovers we know among the Heroes. If given the choice, Farstrider would probably want to be with his wife.

On the other hand, this might turn out to be a good thing for the channeler/non-channeler couples--if Thom and Lan become Heroes, Moiraine and Nynaeve might be able to visit them in T'A'R. Theoretically, Nynaeve could even revive them every time they die by ripping them out of T'A'R like Moghedien did with Birgitte.

Thom/Lan die of old age > become young again in T'A'R > Nynaeve rips them out. Repeat as many times as needed.

Last edited by sleepinghour; 12-30-2010 at 05:27 PM.
  #17  
Old 12-30-2010, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shepherd79 View Post
given that Jain seems to be one of the most famous and heroic people of the current age, does anybody else think he might come back in the final book when Mat blows the horn?
There's a good chance. IMNSHO, Famous is the key word in your question. Jain Farstrider is someone that people of all ages dream of being or being like. Aside from his books, Gleemen and bards tell tales of him and inspire the "common dream" required to hold a Hero in T'A'R to await the call of the Horn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enheduanna View Post
Being tied to the Horn is based on self-sacrifice IIRC, Jain will come to the Horn, and so will Verin.
Heros are bound to the Horn for a variety of reasons. Hawkwing wasn't noted for his self-sacrifice, but for his leadership and charisma. I don't have time to track down the references, but some Heros aren't even warriors in the conventional sense -- I want to say Anya The Wise Counselor is mentioned somewhere as an example of a non-warrior Hero.
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Old 12-30-2010, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepinghour View Post
But would Farstrider want to become a Hero?
Doesn't matter:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ
Barnes and Noble chat 11 November 2000

Beth Silver from Austin, TX: Aside from the Heroes of the Horn waiting around in the World of Dreams, is there any kind of afterlife in Wheel of Time? Do the Heroes get a choice when they are linked to the Horn; can they retire, or take 'ordinary life' sabbaticals?


RJ: In answer to the first question, yes, there is an ordinary afterlife. In answer to the second, no. You cannot decide not to be a Hero linked to the Wheel.


Quote:
Theoretically, Nynaeve could even revive them every time they die by ripping them out of T'A'R like Moghedien did with Birgitte.
She can only rip a Hero out of Tel'aran'rhiod if one of two conditions is met:

1. Said Hero breaks the prescripts, as Birgitte did.

2. The Need is great enough that Nynaeve can find said Hero anyway.
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Old 12-30-2010, 08:52 PM
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Do we even know how Heroes are made/tied to the horn? Im not sure if the books mentioned how but I see two possibilities:

1. A Hero is spun out by the wheel, destined to do great things etc

2. Someone does something really awesome, the pattern recognizes it and spins him into a Hero by tying him to the horn

if it is number 2 then I think Jain would qualify, he HAS done a lot of stuff and traveled to many places, and along with his death that is probably enough to make him a Hero
  #20  
Old 12-30-2010, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortar View Post
Do we even know how Heroes are made/tied to the horn? Im not sure if the books mentioned how but I see two possibilities:
No we don't know from anything in the books or interviews HOW or WHY. All we know is that there are a hundred or more Archetypal Heroes who are bound to the Horn of Valere and that the Pattern spins them out as needed to correct imbalances in the Wheel of Time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortar View Post
1. A Hero is spun out by the wheel, destined to do great things etc
This is true. We know this from Birgitte's missing Gaidal Cain and from RJ's explanations in the interview database -- linked in Terez's signature along with other online resources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortar View Post
2. Someone does something really awesome, the pattern recognizes it and spins him into a Hero by tying him to the horn
This is also true. We know this from Hawkwing's comment to Hurin at Falme and from RJ's comments in Terez's interview database.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortar View Post
if it is number 2 then I think Jain would qualify, he HAS done a lot of stuff and traveled to many places, and along with his death that is probably enough to make him a Hero
Jain Farstrider is probably one of the archetypal Heroes already tied to the Horn and spun out to fulfill some Hero's Destiny -- Which may or may not have been his sacrifice in the Tower of Ghenjei.

I think he would qualify for addition if he weren't already Bound to the Horn, but he's too much of an archetype to not be bound already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortar View Post
Do we even know how Heroes are made/tied to the horn?
My theory is that the Heroes Of The Horn are "elected" and shaped by the strength of their presence in the repertoire of gleemen and bards -- the popularity of tales of each Hero's best known incarnation determine that Hero's identity in T'A'R.

It is a Hero's place in the "Group Consciousness" that powers their presence in T'A'R and perhaps their place/rank in the band when called by the Horn.
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