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  #1  
Old 11-22-2010, 06:23 PM
Bladesoar Bladesoar is offline
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Default Red-veiled "Aiel"

I know this has been addressed in other threads, but I'm trying to gather information for this topic.

So even though we have very little information regarding this topic, I have a strong feeling regarding these "red-veiled aiel." Many people have suggested different ideas on who these people are and where they came from, so I would like to say what I believe in and why.

Some of you guys have suggested that these are Aiel dreadlords--- darkfriend Aiel who can channel. Others have suggested they are simply darkfriend Aiel. Others say they are remnants of the Jenn Aiel. Still others say they are not Aiel at all. Some have suggested these are Darkfriends or dreadlords that Demandred has recruited from the Land of Madmen. Others have suggested Sea Folk. And other have suggested Shara. Personally, I don't think they are Aiel. I think they are from Shara.

Before I go into why I think they are from Shara, I want to refresh your memory of the scene where we meet these "red-veiled Aiel." It's the only scene we have of them, and what a cliffhanger this is. This is all we have to go with.

"They were men, wearing red veils over their faces. They walked at a crouch, scanning the terrain, short spears worn on their backs."

So at first glance, you might think apart from the red-veils, these are definitely Aiel. They are sneaky, like the Aiel, weary of their surroundings, scanning the terrain, like the Aiel. And to top it all off, they have spears on their backs. Woah! Ok, so here's the thing. The Aiels' veils were red, for one. Also, the one specific Aiel described had "dark eyes [that] were glassy and hard." So automatically we know (as has been discussed before), Aiel don't have dark eyes! This is wrong! Also, I'm inclined to believe that even if they were Darkfriend Aiel, it would be hard to break the habit of killing without veiling themselves. And as we see here, "the Aiel man undid his veil." Then we see "the man's teeth had been filed to points." This is probably one of the most ridiculous and mysterious parts of the description what kind of human being would have filed teeth? As has been said, Aelfinn and Eelfinn do, but it's unlikely that it's them. Anyway, back to the topic at hand. After unveiling his face, the "Aiel" man killed Barriga. So just out of the common knowledge that habits are hard to break, I find it hard to believe that an Aiel could intentionally remove his veil just before killing Barriga. Very odd.

Then we get the final description that they were "something terrible." So of course the descriptions are screaming that these are no friendly people and almost definitely darkfriends.

Now then, why are they NOT Aiel? Well, apart from that whole habit thing and the weird filed teeth thing going on, I think this is a strategical decision. A genius one if I may say so myself. First of all, let me put to you the classic example: in war and battle if army A dresses itself with the uniforms of the opposing army B, at first sight, army B would be inclined to think they are friendly people. This could be a deadly mistake if the army A got close to army B and army B didn't realize that army A was a hostile army until army A was too close. By then it would be too late and army B would most likely be at a great disadvantage. It's a sort of element of surprise thing going on. To prove the effectiveness of this, Barriga himself at first sight thought himself safe and that's why he "let his guard down" so to speak and let them approach so easily.

Towers of Midnight, chapter "And After" page 839.
"'Light be praised,' he whispered. 'Aiel.'" And a bit later, "'I'm safe!'" He realized his mistake too late, when these red veiled Aiel were far too close for any chance of escape and all that whole deal. So you can see in terms of a force, these Aiel-like uniforms could prove deadly against the forces of the Light/Dragon. I think that the outfits these people are wearing are most likely a deliberate strategy used to misdirect and confuse the forces of the Light. I expect we will see a whole army of them in the next book. You might say if their intention was to copy the Aiel and trick other armies, why not dress more similarly to the real Aiel (meaning without the RED veils). Well, this is probably so the Shadow armies don't start attacking them. Similar enough to trick the Light, and different enough to avoid being attacked by friendly troops.

Something else about the veils. As far as I can remember, there is only one group of people who actually use veils strictly. These are of course, Sharans.

The World of Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time. The World of the Wheel. page 153.
"Sharan merchants are unwilling even to allow the truth of their appearance to be known, walking among outsiders only when cloaked and veiled."

Hmmm... ok so why is it that they don't want their appearance known? Perhaps because they have dark glassy eyes and file-pointed teeth? And of course I shouldn't need to spell it out for you that they are always veiled, much like these red-veiled Aiel. We've met people from every land except the Land of Madmen and Shara. This I'm a bit unsure of because I don't quite remember the details, but I believe I read somewhere that the Sea Folk give a choice to men who can channel. They can either jump off the ship and drown themselves, or (the more shameful option) to be deposited in a desolate island. Ok, so this could possibly mean that the Land of Madmen contains many male sea folk channelers. And then from the little the Sea Folk themselves know, this Land of Madmen contains uncivilized groups of males and females, most of whom can channel. So, since we aren't given weird descriptions by the Sea Folk who saw them, and apart from being primitive, they seem to be human since they don't hide their appearance, the only people we really haven't met are Sharans. Sharans hide their appearance as stated before. And frankly, I doubt RJ would add a random army/group of people we haven't even heard of at the end of the book. That's really cheesy and I really don't think RJ would do that, although that's just my opinion and belief. It'd be like it's the end of the book, we haven't heard of teletubbies at all but randomly RJ has them there in the last book. I find this very unlikely. It's much more likely that this group (Sharans) of people who have been a complete enigma- whom we have heard of but know so little about- will play a bigger role in the upcoming book, even if not in the actual Shara land. RJ said that no scenes would be in Seanchan or Shara. But as with the Seanchan although we haven't seen their mainland, we've seen plenty of the Seanchan and they play quite a big role. So why not Shara?

I want to add that in the nice big white book which contains the bulk of knowledge we have of Shara, as little as that is. It is stated there that the person who gave information about Shara to the historian/author of the article about Shara believed that the real power came not from the shobotay and those cute little monarchs every 7 years, but rather from the channelers that were supposed to be serving them. So this mean it's likely that the real rulers of Shara are the female channelers. So, if indeed the authority of Shara belongs to channelers, I would imagine it would be really easy for one of the most powerful channelers ever to be able to infiltrate their society fairly easily: very likely Demandred. Or maybe a female forsaken, although it's unlikely it's one of them from what we've seen has happened to the bulk of them. (Messana, Graendal, Cyndane/Lanfear, Mogheiden, Semirhage, Arangar) so yeah.

Conclusion: these red-veiled "Aiel" will be found in higher numbers and are really from Shara. Most possibly they are Darkfriends somehow recruited from there. Could very well be Demandred or maybe Moridin. It's really the only piece of the civilization/human puzzle left that will fit. Anything else would have to be a completely new creation, and like I said, I strongly doubt we will be introduced a completely new army of new beings.
  #2  
Old 11-22-2010, 07:40 PM
Blue Nine Blue Nine is offline
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Personally, I'm inclined to believe that the red-veiled aiel are instead a culmination of all the "gun on the mantle" events. 1) Their glassy, hard eyes remind me of the BT personnel like Tarna et al who we are pretty sure have been forcibly turned to the shadow. 2) The male aiel channelers who run off to the blight to die in some disgustingly heroic gesture. 3) The "there
s a _______ in the blight" issue. what if its a tribe of aiel in the blight? They could be a combination of #1+2.

Aside fromt that, I don't think they'll be from Shara because BS has said that we wont see any significant Sharan involvement in the remaining books.
  #3  
Old 11-22-2010, 07:58 PM
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morat'corlm morat'corlm is offline
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Sharans sound as plausible an identity as any. As far as I'm concerned, the eyes entirely rule out that they might be Aiel; I just don't buy the Colored Contacts of Evil explanation.
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  #4  
Old 11-22-2010, 07:58 PM
Cortar Cortar is offline
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Originally Posted by Bladesoar View Post
So at first glance, you might think apart from the red-veils, these are definitely Aiel. They are sneaky, like the Aiel, weary of their surroundings, scanning the terrain, like the Aiel. And to top it all off, they have spears on their backs. Woah! Ok, so here's the thing. The Aiels' veils were red, for one. Also, the one specific Aiel described had "dark eyes [that] were glassy and hard." So automatically we know (as has been discussed before), Aiel don't have dark eyes! This is wrong! Also, I'm inclined to believe that even if they were Darkfriend Aiel, it would be hard to break the habit of killing without veiling themselves. And as we see here, "the Aiel man undid his veil." Then we see "the man's teeth had been filed to points." This is probably one of the most ridiculous and mysterious parts of the description what kind of human being would have filed teeth? As has been said, Aelfinn and Eelfinn do, but it's unlikely that it's them. Anyway, back to the topic at hand. After unveiling his face, the "Aiel" man killed Barriga. So just out of the common knowledge that habits are hard to break, I find it hard to believe that an Aiel could intentionally remove his veil just before killing Barriga. Very odd.
I just want to address this line of logic because I believe it to be completely false. Obvisouly if there were Aiel then that would either make them (1) darkfriends or (2) people turned by a 13x13

If they are (1) then it wouldn't be a stretch at all to say that they would break their traditions. The whole point of being a darkfriend is that you care about yourself, power, etc more than anything else. To claim that an Aiel would be a darkfriend, but then want to hold on to traditions about killing is kinda silly especially when a darkfriend probably has murdered people before

If they are (2) then it doesn't really matter because whoever is in control of them probably made them remove their veils just to humiliate the turned even further or to show what he/she can make them do while turned
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Old 11-22-2010, 08:13 PM
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@Blue Nine
The glass eyes description in relations to Tarna is interesing I'm going to have to look it up when I find time. "There's a ___ in the Blight" needs the shock factor and this is just a personal opinion, but I wouldn't be shocked to find there's an army of Aiel channelers. In fact, I'm expecting it because at the rate the story is going so far, it seems like the Shadow has no chance. We've seen little of what they can do... so the Aiel channelers would sort of balance that out. I'm expecting something far more shocking.

@morat'corlm
Same here! haha

@Cortar
What I'm saying is that I think they are NOT Aiel because as I said habits are hard to break. Even if you are evil or not, if you have spent your whole life doing something, you would find breaking that habit quite a difficult thing to accomplish. I agree holding their traditions is silly.. I just don't think they can let go of traditions THAT easily. If they were turned and therefore could channel, then I doubt that the specific "Aiel" who killed Barriga would've resorted to a knife and risk Barriga fighting back. So I'm not convinced they could channel.
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Old 11-22-2010, 08:53 PM
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IIRC the darkfriend aiel that tried to kill Mat, veiled herself so that does add some credence to Blade's argument.

Its part of the whole nurture thing, if your entire life you're engrained with a habit no matter how power hungry you are the habits still there.
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Old 11-22-2010, 11:09 PM
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But we've already seen Sharans -- their figurehead monarchs that Graendal snatched up, and that rogue Sharan in Tear -- and there's nothing monstrous about them. And their channelers are supposed to tattoo their faces, so they'd be pretty easy to distinguish.

It seems like a given that these aren't actually Aiel, and that the reason they're veiling themselves is to cover their "horrific maws." I got the strong impression that they were some sort of Shadowspawn.
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Old 11-23-2010, 12:21 AM
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I agree with Blade on them being Non-channelers. A channeler would not have used a knife to do the killing.

Although there is a lot of merit in the theory of these red-Veiled Aiels being Sharans i think i am going to go with the "something else". The Blight is too big for us to have seen all that inhabit it. These creatures might just be another twisted once-human Shadowspawn.
  #9  
Old 11-23-2010, 01:21 AM
Neilbert Neilbert is offline
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I agree with Blade on them being Non-channelers. A channeler would not have used a knife to do the killing.
Unless the channeler was the sort to really relish the act of killing. Channeling lacks the personal touch.
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Old 11-23-2010, 01:47 AM
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Whoever they are I hope they are Demandred's army - the guy needs to do something already!
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Old 11-23-2010, 08:36 AM
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@BiteOnThis
Yeah Melindhra or however you spell her name did that when she tried to kill Mat. Thanks for pointing that out!

@Oneirist
I haven't read that scene in a long while, but if I remember correctly it wasn't known they were Sharan, it was just guessed or assumed.

@natasharma
Thanks! And of course that is possible too, after all, if I knew for sure, I wouldn't theorize but rather be stating facts. I'm just inclined to believe we won't be introduced to a deadly force by the end of the book that we haven't seen. I might expect a few new monsters in the Blight, but definitely not human-like beings like these "Aiel." Seems corny to just add them in and say, "oh they were from the deep blight." I don't want these "Aiel" to be from there. At least something we've introduced before.

@Neilbert
Semirhage relished at the touch of killing probably more than most. Yet she killed with the One Power devising creative and painful ways to kill to make the victim suffer and also to entertain herself more. So if they were channelers who relished killing, I'd be inclined to believe they would do something along those lines even if they couldn't quite meet Sermihage's standards.

@z10
Yes me too! I never bothered wondering what he was up to until I decided to establish what each Forsaken was doing. And noticed I had no clue as to Demandred! I hope it's something even more deadly and ridiculous than Moridin.
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Old 11-23-2010, 09:28 AM
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The only reason they would have filed teeth would be because they are cannibals. I think they are Aiel channelers who have been turned. But that all depends on whether turning changes eye color. Its unusual for someone with light hair to have dark eyes. Not rare, but still something to be remarked. Id love to find descrips of the Aes Sedai who went to the black tower. If those who were turned had dark eyes before turning and Pevara has light eyes it would explain alot. Im still wondering if they turned the other Aes Sedai, why didnt they turn Pevara when she was creating a scene at the gates wanting to be let out?
The simple answer would be, Pevara has light colored eyes and would be way too noticable if her eye color suddenly changed dark.
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Old 11-23-2010, 09:36 AM
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Yeah the Black Tower is a very interesting topic... I can't wait for its resolution the next book.
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Old 11-23-2010, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neilbert View Post
Unless the channeler was the sort to really relish the act of killing. Channeling lacks the personal touch.
And if the filed teeth does imply cannibalism then using a knife would be exactly what they would do. Hell, as turned/darkfriend cannibal aiel, they might use the OP to hold him, while they cut sections from him eating while he was still alive watching.
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Old 11-23-2010, 10:08 AM
David Selig David Selig is offline
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But that all depends on whether turning changes eye color. Its unusual for someone with light hair to have dark eyes. Not rare, but still something to be remarked. Id love to find descrips of the Aes Sedai who went to the black tower. If those who were turned had dark eyes before turning and Pevara has light eyes it would explain alot. Im still wondering if they turned the other Aes Sedai, why didnt they turn Pevara when she was creating a scene at the gates wanting to be let out?
Tarna has blue eyes and pale yellow hair. Pevara has dark eyes.
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Old 11-23-2010, 11:48 AM
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@flinn
That sounds delicious.. hahaha

And man I need a re-read of the series when I get the chance. That would be around my 8th re-read...
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Old 11-23-2010, 11:53 AM
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I think this comes back to the "There's a _____ in the blight" question. I think these red veiled doods are the citzens of a human city in the blight.
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Old 11-23-2010, 11:58 AM
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Nafro, it's possible that the "___" is referring to these Aiel-like people. I just don't find it likely because like I said before, and this is purely opinion, that statement needs the shock factor, and I wouldn't be shocked if there was a human city in the Blight. I'm expecting something far more ridiculous and shock-worthy because to me that wouldn't really shock me.
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Old 11-23-2010, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Selig View Post
Tarna has blue eyes and pale yellow hair. Pevara has dark eyes.
Then I am confused with why Pevara wasnt turned. There has to be a reason.
  #20  
Old 11-23-2010, 01:49 PM
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@Neilbert
Semirhage relished at the touch of killing probably more than most. Yet she killed with the One Power devising creative and painful ways to kill to make the victim suffer and also to entertain herself more.
No, Semirhage relished causing pain.
 

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