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  #1  
Old 10-30-2010, 09:38 PM
fionwe1987 fionwe1987 is offline
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Default What the hell is he planning?

So, its clear that he intends to break the Seals. He confirms it in his final dream. He has the support of Perrin and his army, and Nynaeve, and that may be about it.

Now, he seems to have foreseen this, and used this to have Egwene collect all his allies and their armies for one meeting.

But, he tells her they will then discuss the terms, and he mentions these terms again in his dream...

I have a sinking feeling his "terms" will be the Dragon's Peace we see from Aviendha's time among the glass columns. I think that, as a price for him going to SG and defeating the Shadow, he wants all the rulers to promise a peace with the Seanchan.

I think this will cause an even more violent reaction. From Egwene, Darlin, Illian, etc. for certain. From the Aiel as well. But Aviendha in particular might view this with horror. We don't know where she is, but there's a good chance she's sitting with the Aiel contingent. Elayne herself will object on anti-Seanchan grounds anyway, but if she hears what Avi has to say, her opposition may become even greater.

To add to the mess, Camelyn will likely be sacked, and there may well be an attack on Tar Valon by the Seanchan.

There's also the Black Tower, of course.

This is two books in a row now where Rand has made noises about going to Shayol Ghul. I think Egwene will have strong reasons against, given what Verin said, and her own Dream. Much of the early part of the next book may be an Egwene-Rand standoff. I can see all the Wondergirls allying to staunchly negate any Seanchan alliance.

What do you think?
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Old 10-31-2010, 12:13 AM
dfchang813 dfchang813 is offline
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Well, Rand wants all the rulers of the world conveniently gathered in one place. He's rather expertly played Egwene getting her to do the lion's share of the work for him.

He plans on breaking the seals to the Dark One's prison no matter what. I think there's little debate that we the readers know this to be the CORRECT course of action.

Now . . . after doing this, Rand is likely going to be able to exert quite a bit of leverage wouldn't you say? I mean, no one with 2 brains cells to rub against each other believes that the Dark One can be defeated without the Dragon Reborn going to Shayol Ghul to face him.

Certainly, he can ask for almost anything and KNOW that it will be met because of the situation.

I agree with you that the Dragon's Peace is the most likely resolution and that it CAN be forced despite the widespread loathing for the Seanchan because . . . well the seals are broken, the Dark One is loose and really WTF are you going to do, say no?

You have listed a few problems though:

1. The SEANCHAN need to agree as well. There's not much of a peace when they continue to go around leashing channelers, taking slaves, trying to force Rand to bend knee to the Crystal Throne and all that.

2. As far as we know at the end of ToM, Rand has just arrived at the Field of Merrilor. How exactly is he supposed to broker a peace with the Seanchan? Wasn't it kinda hard for him to get a meeting with Tuon in the first place? How is that going to happen again when they are now in the middle of active warfare and a strike force is getting ready to invade Tar Valon?

Not to mention, unless the Crystal Throne is metaphorical, how is he supposed to bend knee to it since it's still in Seandar last I heard. Or does Rand bowing before Tuon do the trick? I always got the impression that it was little more LITERAL than that considering the fact that the Crystal Throne appears to be a gigantic Compulsion ter'angreal.

So there's a lot that has to happen just logistically for peace to be made.

And if Rand decides to break the seals FIRST to force compliance as I have theorized, that doesn't leave a lot of time to do that.

2. It will be difficult to get Egwene to comply. She is a bit . . . emotional when it comes to the Seanchan. Kinda her Achilles heel.

Perhaps one wrinkle would be for the Seanchan army invading Tar Valon to wind up saving it from the hordes of Shadowspawn emerging from Caemlyn?

3. I maintain that the knowledge that ALL sul'dam are also channelers starting with Tuon herself is going to be the key to making a peace with the Seanchan even possible.

4. Aviendha may be a surprise because the crystal columns clearly show that open warfare against the Seanchan is a losing proposition. She KNOWS this. In fact, tricking the rest of the nations who HAD been observing the Dragon's Peace into war against the Seanchan backfired and became the key reason they lost. She knows this as well.

Here's the issue:

Rand knows he MUST break the seals again in order to re-seal the Bore . . . this time properly.

The problem is that he doesn't know how to do it yet. In ToM, he openly asks Min to help him figure it out. That's PART of the reason he wants to discuss things with Egwene because he also knows he will need her help to do the job right.

Caemlyn and Tar Valon are going to be attacked but this may not be as bad as we fear because the two might wind up fighting each other as I described above and because both places are easily reached via gateway and we basically have the armies of the entire f'ing world on the Field of Merilor ready to deploy anyway.

I can easily forsee Mat gating in to Caemlyn, taking charge of all the mercenary bands around the city and kicking ass while Elayne gates her forces back. Rinse and repeat with Tar Valon.

In other words, the threat is there but I fail to see why they can't be handled reasonably quickly by the good guys.

The Black Tower needs to be addressed and there is a dream spike there. Now that the good guys are speaking to each other, I wonder how long it'll take before Egwene and Perrin join up to take care of business while Rand and Logain clean up that mess.

Also remember that Lan is charging to his death in Tarwin's Gap and it is rather unlikely that either Nynaeve or Rand is going to watch that happen. So THAT will need to be fixed as well.


With all these things happening, can Rand still AFFORD to just break the seals NOW?

Well, the answer is . . . of course.

Just because the Bore is open doesn't mean the Dark One wins. This is not some 80 foot Sauron figure that's going to jump out and slam mountains down etc.

Remember that the Bore had been fully open for years, decades?? during the War of the Shadow without the world exploding. Lews Therin did patch the Bore but before then, we certainly didn't see the Dark One walking around corporeally.

So unsealing the Bore does not mean the Dark One is set free. It just means he has more influence over the world but at this point, one can argue he can hardly have more than he has already.

There's still time to take care of business.

And the issue of finally fixing that Bore is going to come down to understanding exactly what the Dark One is and what he wants as Verin hinted at in tGS.

Maybe for instance the Dark One isn't necessarily an entity but just a representation of the evil in all men's hearts given power and sentience? I find Lanfear description rather interesting in the end of ToM:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BS/RJ
He comes! The Shadow in every man's mind, the murderer of truth. No!
Who is she talking about? Moridin?? I tend to think it more likely that she is referring to The Dark One himself. And she refers to him as the Shadow in EVERY man's mind.

So my long answer to your question is that Rand is going to break the seals and after that go to Shayol Ghul to re-seal the bore. It will involve Callandor and two other women. Nynaeve and Alivia. They will likely succeed but at the cost of Rand dying . . . probably because of the flaw in Callandor that Min keeps talking about. Befoe he goes, he has to AT LEAST fix the Black Tower, save Lan, and somehow broker a peace between the Seanchan empire and the rest of the world which involves the abolition of slaver and leashing of the damane. Exactly HOW all this is going to go down is what we will be reading about in 2012.

Dennis

Last edited by dfchang813; 10-31-2010 at 12:19 AM.
  #3  
Old 10-31-2010, 08:50 AM
fionwe1987 fionwe1987 is offline
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Several things:

The timing of what you're saying don't really add up. Rand states clearly that he and Egwene will discuss breaking the Seals and his "terms", on the same day. Rand again says this the day before the parley.

So, clearly, he isn't going to make the demands after actually breaking the Seals.

As for whether doing that is right or not... sure, at some point, that may be what has to be done. But given Egwene's dream, I'm not at all sure this is the right time.

There's also the fact that Rand himself, at some level, seems to realize that the final plan cannot be the Dragon's alone. Thematically, the plan that would work would be one that incorporates Egwene's ideas as well.

Egwene also seems aware that she's in a way collecting all the armies for Rand, no matter the end of the debate.

As for the Seanchan: I really don't think the problem is the Aiel deciding to fight, but the stringent terms of the Dragon's peace which lets the Seanchan keep all their prisoners. Avi's viewings don't even hint at what the White Tower is up to. There are indications that Tuon is well liked, and that they buy some peace for a time. But given that Avi cannot control the future, she is more likely to want to iron away all reasons for a war between the Seanchan and the Aiel. As well, I think Avi will try to convert as many Aiel to the Way of the Leaf as possible.

Basically, I think the meeting in the Fields of Merillor is going to end up being a farce. Before long, Elayne is going to get news that Caemlyn is under attack, Rand will learn from Naeff about the Dreamspike in the BT and Egwene will have a full assault on a somewhat empty Tower, which she will rush away to defend.

And I think Mat won't reach Caemlyn on time. The guilt he feels seems to be prophesied, and I think Caemlyn will be razed, with the canons saved by the desperate heroism of the Band.
  #4  
Old 10-31-2010, 05:59 PM
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On a sidenote to this...is it possible to read this book and not be absolutely disgusted by Egwene on every single level? I really thought she turned a corner in TGS and she is, by far, the worst person on the planet. Rand is pulling a Jesus Christ Superstar act and she is dead set against him. Makes you wonder what is wrong with her (hidden compulsion, Fain's touch, pure mental retardation, etc).


I dont think Rand even knows exactly what he has to do at Shayol Ghul...other than link with Nynaeve, another female (my guess is Moiraine) using Callandor. He tasked that out to Min to figure it out.
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Old 10-31-2010, 07:32 PM
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Davian93,

I think another thread is going to need to be started dissecting Egwene's behavior and thoughts but there can be plenty of devil's advocates for her.

I personally do find her attitude slightly distasteful . . . but that is because as a reader I'm privy to not only Rand's inner thoughts but what he has been through for the past 12 books.

Egwene has not and the NATURAL reaction when somebody says they are going to break the Seals to the Dark One's prison will be somewhat along the lines of Egwene's reaction.

Not that it matters much in the end. I'm pretty sure that when all is said and done, Egwene will wind up trusting Rand.

Dennis
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Old 10-31-2010, 07:49 PM
fionwe1987 fionwe1987 is offline
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Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
On a sidenote to this...is it possible to read this book and not be absolutely disgusted by Egwene on every single level? I really thought she turned a corner in TGS and she is, by far, the worst person on the planet. Rand is pulling a Jesus Christ Superstar act and she is dead set against him. Makes you wonder what is wrong with her (hidden compulsion, Fain's touch, pure mental retardation, etc).
This seems rather knee jerk to me. Sure, she has a problem with his plan (and that is true of everyone but Perrin and Nynaeve). But she didn't hold him in TV. She let him go, and worked to get support for her plan to openly convince him he's wrong. She even realizes the implied value of gathering all the armies.

And given her dream, which certainly seems to indicate something dangerous about breaking the Seals, she even has a real reason to oppose his plan. Notice that she only thinks there needs to be more planning before any such course is attempted. Which seems wise. And Rand himself isn't fully clued in on what to do. What's the point of breaking the Seals before he has a plan?
  #7  
Old 10-31-2010, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by fionwe1987 View Post
This seems rather knee jerk to me. Sure, she has a problem with his plan (and that is true of everyone but Perrin and Nynaeve). But she didn't hold him in TV. She let him go, and worked to get support for her plan to openly convince him he's wrong. She even realizes the implied value of gathering all the armies.

And given her dream, which certainly seems to indicate something dangerous about breaking the Seals, she even has a real reason to oppose his plan. Notice that she only thinks there needs to be more planning before any such course is attempted. Which seems wise. And Rand himself isn't fully clued in on what to do. What's the point of breaking the Seals before he has a plan?
Let? How exactly would she have stopped him? The Pattern wasn't going to let her capture him.

Besides which, Egwene (and apparently every other 3rd Ager) seems to forget that breaking the Seals doesnt free the Dark One. It merely brings the status quo back to an open Bore where the DO's influence seeps through. He's not suddenly freed or anything. The Bore was open for 100 years before it was Sealed by LTT & Co. The overreaction on her part and everyone else's is getting really annoying.

Egwene's furious drive to push all Rand's closest allies away is disgusting and sad. She's Latra Posae all over again. The only difference this time is that Rand will still likely get a couple female channelers to help him as thankfully not all the female channelers are united under Egwene.

Rand is glowing with the light of the Creator and can wipe out an army of shadowspawn with the swipe of a hand and yet Egwene thinks of how to control him. Its just sad at this point. Thank God for Nynaeve.
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  #8  
Old 10-31-2010, 08:15 PM
dfchang813 dfchang813 is offline
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Originally Posted by fionwe1987 View Post
Several things:

The timing of what you're saying don't really add up. Rand states clearly that he and Egwene will discuss breaking the Seals and his "terms", on the same day. Rand again says this the day before the parley.
What Rand has said again and again is that he is going to break those Seals no matter what anyone says because he is convinced it is the right thing to do. He told Egwene that they would "discuss" things simply to get her to gather as many rulers and allies as possible so he could avoid that busy work himself.

His ta'veren nature would bend most normal people to his view anyway, Perrin already agrees, and I don't see Elayne holding out long in his presence.

Remember that his nature EXUDES power, people desperately want to trust him and follow what he says. So far, we have only Tuon and Egwene who have been able to resist him.

Quote:
So, clearly, he isn't going to make the demands after actually breaking the Seals.
Well, he may or may not break the Seals early but my point is that I don't think it makes much of a difference if he does. Once the Seals are broken, he will make his demands or we have a situation where the Bore is open, the Dark One is breaking loose . . . and the Dragon Reborn decides to sit it out. That won't happen and Rand knows this.

In fact, the smarter thing to do is to break the Seals first. It avoids any debate with Egwene and immediately moves the discussion to the next pertinent phase which is what he will require of the world before he sacrifices himself to face the Dark One.

Quote:
As for whether doing that is right or not... sure, at some point, that may be what has to be done. But given Egwene's dream, I'm not at all sure this is the right time.
What dream is this? If you're talking about the one with Rand chopping the ropes binding the crystal ball, how does that imply that breaking the Seals is wrong or that the timing is wrong? For one thing, we're not even sure it has to do with Rand breaking the Seals, that's just Egwene's interpretation of it. She's been known to be wrong. Even if it is, there's not evidence to suggest that the DREAM says it is a bad idea, only that Egwene is horrified by it. Which doesn't mean it isn't the right thing to do.

I agree that breaking the Seals earlier would be the wrong time . . . but now appears the perfect time. Rand's head space is finally where it needs to be to confront the Dark One. As the Aiel Wise Ones have said: "The Car'a'carn has embraced death." I don't think there's any more reason to wait.

Quote:
There's also the fact that Rand himself, at some level, seems to realize that the final plan cannot be the Dragon's alone. Thematically, the plan that would work would be one that incorporates Egwene's ideas as well.
Hmmm. I don't see that at all. Rand hopes that Egwene will understand but he will proceed with the breaking regardless. He's relying more on Min to give him more guidance on what to do than Egwene. Also, right now I don't believe we have one shred of evidence in entire series, not one line, that Egwene has ANY idea how to deal with the Dark One at all. Her main focus has been uniting the White Tower and then trying to build bridges with the other major channeling bodies in the world like the Aiel, the Sea Folk, the Kin, etc.

What would make sense THEMATICALLY to me at least would be for Egwene to trust Rand and work with him which was not done in the past with Lews Therin and Latra Posae. Why didn't it work in the past? Because Latra Posae just didn't trust Lews Therin. And maybe Lews Therin then didn't deserve that trust. But as Rand said, this time is different. He was brought up better. He IS better. He IS deserving of that trust . . . and once Egwene finally sees that, she will support him.

Right now, Egwene doesn't even have any idea what to do with Rand, himself. Where is the evidence to even suggest she's spared any thought to what she is going to say to him?

She's said on numerous occasions that Rand needs to be free to fulfill the Prophecies and that he can't be just leashed in the White Tower. She sees herself mainly as "advising" him much like Moiraine tried to do in the first 4 books of this series. That doesn't sound particularly intelligent to me when at this particular point in time, NO ONE knows more about what needs to be done than Rand, Min through her readings, and MAYBE Moiraine. Granted that's not much, but it's still more than Egwene knows . . .

Quote:
As for the Seanchan: I really don't think the problem is the Aiel deciding to fight, but the stringent terms of the Dragon's peace which lets the Seanchan keep all their prisoners. Avi's viewings don't even hint at what the White Tower is up to. There are indications that Tuon is well liked, and that they buy some peace for a time. But given that Avi cannot control the future, she is more likely to want to iron away all reasons for a war between the Seanchan and the Aiel. As well, I think Avi will try to convert as many Aiel to the Way of the Leaf as possible.
We don't know the details of the Dragon's Peace but it does seem morally ambiguous at best to let an empire responsible for almost half the population of the world to continue to hold slaves and leash channelers. Maybe that had to be done in order to bring the Seanchan in line so that the world can be saved from the Dark One but it's analogous to the Civil War being ended by a treaty that lets the South keep their slaves.

At this point, I don't think even Aviendha herself knows what she is going to do. She has to tell the Wise Ones and the Clan Chiefs and this is going to be met with consierable resistance. Her vision of the future is anathema to the Aiel. Will they even believe her? Will they think the columns unhinged her mind? She's going to have to force them to go through those columns again to get them to accept the truth.

All that is known at this point is that abandoning honor and tricking the rest of the nations to abandon the Dragon's Peace is not a good thing. The Aiel following the Way of the Leaf is probably good . . . but not before the slavery and leashing of channelers are ended in Seanchan. How this is going to be accomplished, I have no idea but Aviendha obviously thinks that she has a critical role in how this plays out as HER line was responsible for the destruction of the Aiel in her visions.

Quote:
Basically, I think the meeting in the Fields of Merillor is going to end up being a farce. Before long, Elayne is going to get news that Caemlyn is under attack, Rand will learn from Naeff about the Dreamspike in the BT and Egwene will have a full assault on a somewhat empty Tower, which she will rush away to defend.
I am with you that the Field of Merrilor will be a farce . . . mainly because Rand is pulling EVERYONE'S strings. It's a great excuse for him to gather the armies of the world together to deal with the Seanchan and the Dark One all in one go. He'll break the Seals, make his demands, and then have an ideal staging area to launch strikes where he needs them to go.

Quote:
And I think Mat won't reach Caemlyn on time. The guilt he feels seems to be prophesied, and I think Caemlyn will be razed, with the canons saved by the desperate heroism of the Band.
Perhaps. He will show up early enough to make a difference I think. That Gateway is supposed to show up once a day, can Caemlyn really be razed in only one day? And isn't there a way to communicate what is happening back to Elayne? There is the potential for gateway to be opened and hundreds of thousands of soldiers and dozens of channelers to go through in hours.

Dennis
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Old 10-31-2010, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
Let? How exactly would she have stopped him? The Pattern wasn't going to let her capture him.

Besides which, Egwene (and apparently every other 3rd Ager) seems to forget that breaking the Seals doesnt free the Dark One. It merely brings the status quo back to an open Bore where the DO's influence seeps through. He's not suddenly freed or anything. The Bore was open for 100 years before it was Sealed by LTT & Co. The overreaction on her part and everyone else's is getting really annoying.
I think this is key. You need to think OUTSIDE the box to get anywhere here. What is the big deal with breaking the Seals. How many of them are left anyway? How strong are they? What happened to the 4 that basically cracked all by their lonesome? The Bore is all but open anyway and I can't imagine how much MORE influence the Dark One can have without just stomping on everyone.

Rand is right on with this one but remember Davian that we are looking at this from the omniscient reader POV. Egwene doesn't have our perspective. I do look forward to her getting it as she begins to see truly what Rand is doing. She has not been "Lews Therined" like Cadsuane has for example.

Dennis
  #10  
Old 10-31-2010, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BWB
The plan was risky for a number of reasons. All knew that the Dark One had a certain direct effect on the area close around Shayol Ghul - his touch had already transformed it from an idyllic island in a cool sea to a desolate waste - and it was likely that any attempt to channel there would be instantly detected and the raiding party destroyed. Worse, several experts claimed that if the seals were not placed with exact precision, the resultant strain, instead of sealing the Bore, would rip it open, freeing the Dark One entirely.

Don't you think breaking the seals could do the same? Besides, the Dark One did not have nearly as much power to touch the world before the Strike as he does now, so obviously breaking the seals is not just going to return things to the way they were before the Strike. That's naive.

Egwene knows that a part of Rand knows he shouldn't break the seals. She's most likely right.
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Old 11-01-2010, 04:50 AM
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Is it worth considering that it is all a ruse by Rand?
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Old 11-01-2010, 07:44 AM
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Don't you think breaking the seals could do the same? Besides, the Dark One did not have nearly as much power to touch the world before the Strike as he does now, so obviously breaking the seals is not just going to return things to the way they were before the Strike. That's naive.

Egwene knows that a part of Rand knows he shouldn't break the seals. She's most likely right.
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Rand has to clear the rubble before he can rebuild...that means breaking the remaining Seals. Egwene is simply pulling an Elaida by misinterpreting her own dream. I trust 450 year old Rand's judgement on what needs to be done over a 19 year old Egwene's.
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Old 11-01-2010, 08:50 AM
arioch arioch is offline
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Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
Rand has to clear the rubble before he can rebuild...that means breaking the remaining Seals. Egwene is simply pulling an Elaida by misinterpreting her own dream. I trust 450 year old Rand's judgement on what needs to be done over a 19 year old Egwene's.
Except he still has no idea what has to be done after breaking the seals. LTT hasn't really helped him in that regard, particularly as LTT has failed at it before. I don't really think simply combining saidin and saidar into sealing the bore would do it.
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Old 11-01-2010, 09:10 AM
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Except he still has no idea what has to be done after breaking the seals. LTT hasn't really helped him in that regard, particularly as LTT has failed at it before. I don't really think simply combining saidin and saidar into sealing the bore would do it.
But he is 100% sure he has to break the seals to clear the rubble. He just doesnt know what step 2 is. I think he is completely right about the Seals thing if only because it fits in so well with Herid Fel's last note.
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Bonded to Brita

"We caught them in an alley on skid row in downtown Philly and brought them down with Uzi's and dogs. I beat the shit out of one of the guys for resisting arrest. After that, I went home, fried up some tofu with strawberry preserves and melon sticky rice, laid down on the couch with my snuggie and ate rose petals in sweet daisy wine sauce and watched Mamma Mia on DVD and then cried myself to sleep."

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  #15  
Old 11-01-2010, 10:18 AM
arioch arioch is offline
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I'd be more sympathetic to the whole thing if his thought process up till now hasn't been simply:

1) Clear rubble
2) ???
3) Kill the Dark One (99.999% not possible, given the cosmology)

Even WITH LTT's memories as help.
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Old 11-01-2010, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by arioch View Post
I'd be more sympathetic to the whole thing if his thought process up till now hasn't been simply:

1) Clear rubble
2) ???
3) Kill the Dark One (99.999% not possible, given the cosmology)

Even WITH LTT's memories as help.

I think, given his epiphany on Dragonmount, that he should be given the benefit of the doubt at this point. He has an idea of what has to happen but he doesnt know the specifics. He also accepts that he will die in doing so.
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Bonded to Brita

"We caught them in an alley on skid row in downtown Philly and brought them down with Uzi's and dogs. I beat the shit out of one of the guys for resisting arrest. After that, I went home, fried up some tofu with strawberry preserves and melon sticky rice, laid down on the couch with my snuggie and ate rose petals in sweet daisy wine sauce and watched Mamma Mia on DVD and then cried myself to sleep."

Theoryland: Just Some Crazy In A Pot
  #17  
Old 11-01-2010, 10:38 AM
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I think it is the reverse of Moridin's philosophy. Moridin thinks that eventually, the dark one will win - be it this turning of the wheel, or the next one, his victory is assured.

Rand thinks the opposite, eventually, the dark one will be destroyed - not just resealed - be it this turn or the next one.
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Old 11-01-2010, 10:40 AM
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Two things to consider:

1. Did The Dragon ever have the Creator-like powers that Rand is now displaying? From what we know of the AoL, LTT was just a powerful Channeler/ta'averen. There are no indications that he was pulling off the things Rand is now capable of.

2. If that is the case, WHY is this time different? Maybe Rand is correct in that this time is different and that it can be a final victory for the Light.
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Bonded to Brita

"We caught them in an alley on skid row in downtown Philly and brought them down with Uzi's and dogs. I beat the shit out of one of the guys for resisting arrest. After that, I went home, fried up some tofu with strawberry preserves and melon sticky rice, laid down on the couch with my snuggie and ate rose petals in sweet daisy wine sauce and watched Mamma Mia on DVD and then cried myself to sleep."

Theoryland: Just Some Crazy In A Pot
  #19  
Old 11-01-2010, 11:03 AM
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Basel Gill Basel Gill is offline
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1. Break seals
2. Collect DO's underpants
3. ???
4. Profit
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Old 11-01-2010, 11:06 AM
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I think Egwene is right to object. Notice that when Rand makes the clearing the rublle argument, she says they need to plan before they break the Seals.

It looks to me that her argument isn't just "don't break the seals". I think she's saying, "Do it if you're sure, but wait till you know what you're planning to do after...".

Which seems eminently reasonable to me. Rand accepts that breaking the Seals would mean more DO effects on the world. What if, after Breaking the Seals, he discovers that his plan needs a year of effort to succeed? Wouldn't that year have been better with the Seals present?
 


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