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  #1  
Old 01-03-2011, 05:28 PM
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Default Follow Brandon's WoT re-read on Twitter

We've been looking forward to Jan. 1 for some time because Brandon promised that was when he would put his WoT head back on. First task is a re-read; Brandon hasn't done one since he first started working on WoT three years ago. Of course, you can just follow @BrandonSandrson to see his tweets, but you could also join in his re-read using the #wotrr hashtag. Because we all probably need one, right?
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  #2  
Old 01-03-2011, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez View Post
We've been looking forward to Jan. 1 for some time because Brandon promised that was when he would put his WoT head back on. First task is a re-read; Brandon hasn't done one since he first started working on WoT three years ago. Of course, you can just follow @BrandonSandrson to see his tweets, but you could also join in his re-read using the #wotrr hashtag. Because we all probably need one, right?
Nope...I've committed all 14 books to memory.

Yeah, its probably time for a reread. I did read about half of tEotW maybe a month ago before moving on to other books.
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Old 01-03-2011, 08:14 PM
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I'm not sure if or how this is related, but this thread depressed me because I remembered again that we have one book left.
  #4  
Old 01-03-2011, 11:30 PM
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Default I admit it finally...

I'm not a HCFF. I thought I was. But brandons post that their is an extra person on the cover of EoTW (an inside jacket) as forced me to proclaim by ignorance.


So.... WHO is this extra person? Why is it an easter egg??
  #5  
Old 01-03-2011, 11:46 PM
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Here's the full exchange:

Brandon
Reading the start of EOTW reminds me that there's an extra person in the cover art. (More obvious in the secondary, inside piece, I think.)
Brandon
HCFFs already know who that person is, but it's a fun easter egg to know that there's a story behind that extra figure.
Brandon
Mr. Jordan wrote a large chunk of EotW with a fourth Two Rivers lad going along with Perrin, Mat, and Rand. Was to be a major character.
Brandon
Harriet talked him out of it, pointing out that the 4th lad never did anything useful. @theoryland, do you guys have a good thread on him?
Terez
Nah, nothing to talk about really. But here is RJ saying that: http://bit.ly/RJ-BN2000
Brandon
I've asked Harriet if she could dig up any of the old manuscript with the Fourth ta'veren in it, but she's not certain they have any.
Brandon
She said she thinks he was Dannil, but couldn't remember for certain. Many think he was Ewin--a good guess and a possibility.
Brandon
Cover art was commissioned when
he was still a main character, and it was too late to change it when he was removed.
Brandon
Looks like the Fourth
ta'veren was Dannil, in another form: http://bit.ly/h0iDIO (Look for Liandra's question.) [I find it amusing that Brandon went to the trouble to change my link to something Hoid-related.]
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  #6  
Old 01-04-2011, 02:51 PM
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So....we have this from Brandon today...
"WoT Easter Egg: there's an easily overlooked line in the EotW prologue which gives huge foreshadowing of things Rand can do in TofM."

Could it have to do with the song? When Ishy first shows up, LTT asks if he has the Voice and will participate in the Singing. Does Rand have the Voice?
  #7  
Old 01-04-2011, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kasper11 View Post
So....we have this from Brandon today...
"WoT Easter Egg: there's an easily overlooked line in the EotW prologue which gives huge foreshadowing of things Rand can do in TofM."

Could it have to do with the song? When Ishy first shows up, LTT asks if he has the Voice and will participate in the Singing. Does Rand have the Voice?
I don't recall much singing in ToM. Unless his regrowing the orchard's fruit is related to that.

Just rereading the Prologue on Google. The only other thing I see is that right after Lews Therin travels away from his home, he senses that there are no people around for miles.

But I don't recall anything like that in ToM either.
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  #8  
Old 01-04-2011, 03:46 PM
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That was it. I will have to look through TOM again to be sure, but I always argued that it had to do with how Rand could Travel directly to Mat's tent without harming him, and the Chosen can do the same, but other people have to Travel to a specific spot set aside for Traveling to avoid harming people, or a hundred miles outside a city, etc.
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  #9  
Old 01-04-2011, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kasper11 View Post
So....we have this from Brandon today...
"WoT Easter Egg: there's an easily overlooked line in the EotW prologue which gives huge foreshadowing of things Rand can do in TofM."

Could it have to do with the song? When Ishy first shows up, LTT asks if he has the Voice and will participate in the Singing. Does Rand have the Voice?
Just to clarify, foreshadowing of ToM or of AMoL? If ToM, well Rand does fulfill the Fisher King, and the concept that the land and the king are one. Of course, he never really had to sing to the land, but it did cause the green things to grow, and while the valleys didn't exactly give forth lambs, it did at least give forth apples.

Not sure how that could be construed as easily overlooked though.

Edit: apparently I spent so much time re-writing this that Terez and Crispin beat me to the punch.
  #10  
Old 01-04-2011, 04:19 PM
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Default Fourth Age writings, are foreshadowing

The quotation of L.T.T. in the prologue of EotW book, directly tells readers that Tar Valon did not exist at the end of the 2nd Age--just before Dragonmount was created. When taken together with a quotation found in Lord of Chaos, tell reads that "Great Arvalon" will exist in the future, in the Fourth Age.
Quote:
The lions sing and the hills take flight.
The moon by day and the sun by night.
Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool.
Let the Lord of Chaos rule.


-chant from a children's game
heard in Great Arvalon,
The Fourth Age
Tar Valon is a new city, build in the Third Age.
Dragonmount is near Tar Valon, yet L.T.T. felt no people around.
Thus, Tar Valon did not exist yet.
(Birgitte also remembers the founding of the White Tower, but another source.)


Thus, every quotation with a 'Fourth Age' title is referring to the past.
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Old 01-04-2011, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by FelixPax View Post
The quotation of L.T.T. in the prologue of EotW book, directly tells readers that Tar Valon did not exist at the end of the 2nd Age--just before Dragonmount was created. When taken together with a quotation found in Lord of Chaos, tell reads that "Great Arvalon" will exist in the future, in the Fourth Age.
Tar Valon is a new city, build in the Third Age.
Dragonmount is near Tar Valon, yet L.T.T. felt no people around.
Thus, Tar Valon did not exist yet.
(Birgitte also remembers the founding of the White Tower, but another source.)


Thus, every quotation with a 'Fourth Age' title is referring to the past.
Yes, but all of that was also very well-known by the readers, or at least should have been. That certainly tells us nothing that was foreshadowing of ToM.
  #12  
Old 01-04-2011, 04:26 PM
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Brandon
WoT Easter Egg: there's an easily overlooked line in the EotW prologue which gives huge foreshadowing of things Rand can do in TofM.
Terez
I always thought the fact that Lews Therin could sense that there were no people around for miles was interesting.
Brandon
I should have guessed that you'd be the only one who would pick out the right line, Terez.
Brandon
The Easter egg in the prologue has to do with Lews Therin sensing the lack of people around him for miles and miles.
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  #13  
Old 01-04-2011, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimon View Post
Yes, but all of that was also very well-known by the readers, or at least should have been. That certainly tells us nothing that was foreshadowing of ToM.
You might be surprised at the number of individuals, who disagree with that claim, around this Board.

Robert Jordan hinted at events in the last book in the series, in the very Prologue of EotW.
Quote:
And the Shadow fell upon the Land, and the World was riven stone from stone. The oceans fled, and the mountains were swallowed up, and the nations were scattered to the eight corners of the World. The moon was as blood, and the sun was as ashes. The seas boiled, and the living envied the dead. All was scattered, and all but memory lost, and one memory above all others, of him who brought the Shadow and the Breaking of the World. And him they named Dragon.

-from Aleth nin Taerin alta Camora,
The Breaking of the World,

Author unknown, the Fourth Age.
  • Ocean fled
  • Mountain swallowed
  • Nations scattered
  • Moon bleeds
  • Sun turned to ashes
  • Seas boil
It directly implies that Egwene will fail to stop Rand from breaking the remaining Seals on the Bore.

But why is he "named Dragon"? Not the "Dragon Reborn"?

More is going on than meets the eye....
  #14  
Old 01-04-2011, 07:20 PM
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Yay for philosophical conversations with Brandon - you guys are really missing out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twitter
Brandon
Yes, early WoT is very Tolkien influenced. But several original things really stood out to me when I was younger.
Brandon
1) The magic. 2) Strong female protagonists. 3) A woman 'wizard' figure who was far more human than others I'd seen. 4) Tam lives.
Brandon
Though I like Gandalf, Dumbledore, Belgarath, & Allanon, I prefer Moiraine as a character. (Actually, Allanon always just annoyed me.)
Bryce Nielsen
What about Polgara? :P
Brandon
Polgara was awesome. Belgarath was pretty cool too, but Moiraine always feels slightly more real than either one to me.
Brandon
But that's modern Brandon. Teenage Brandon might have thought differently.
Chris Wood
But which of those early wizards was your favorite? I liked Belgarath, but Eddings was one of my first series.
Phil
The WoT names always annoyed me because they're so close to real names. Any chance of dropping a Blixbop into AMOL?
Brandon
Mr. Jordan did this intentionally, to hint that the WoT world was our world in the future (and the past.)
Brandon
It's part of the 'feel' of the world. They are close to real names because they ARE real names, just many years removed.
John Stockton
I was thrown by your "when I was younger" remark until I remembered this series started 20 years ago. Wow.
Brandon
I started when I was 14 or 15...
tadbo
The females in The Wheel of Time are among the most two dimensional in the history of fantasy.
Brandon
I disagree. Case in point: Tolkien's female protagonists. (Which was the comparison I was making.)
Brandon
But even beyond that, you have to remember, this is a society with some skewed gender relationships because of the way magic works.
Brandon
But Moiraine is hardly 2-d. Neither is Nynaeve. They can be annoying, yes, but that's not the same as 2-d.
tadbo
They scheme, they argue, they tug on their skirts and stamp their feet, or they fall at Rand's feet. Really?
Brandon
Aviendha is very distinctive. Tuon is very distinctive. Min is very distinctive. Many of the Aes Sedai act as you say, but...
Brandon
...I see this as an intentional effect of the society they live in.
Zeerak Waseem
Don't you get annoyed with the females in WoT? The female lead I prefer is Aviendha, the rest are full of themselves.
Brandon
Oh, I didn't say they didn't annoy me at times. I said they were strong, and I'll add that they are interesting.
Terez
WoT females are caricaturish, sometimes stereotypical, but not 2-d. (This from a female.)
tadbo
Yes, caricatures. A better description than 2-d.
Brandon
@tadbo Well, different people read things differently. If WoT's women didn't work for you, I understand why, though I don't feel the same.
Brandon
You're not the only one to feel that way.
Brandon
@Terez I view them more of products of a society where social norms are different, and women have something 'machismo'-like.
Brandon
It makes them act similar in places, even though when you see into their souls, there is something deeper.
Terez
IMO this is also true, but the caricature part is an important aspect of accepting ALL WoT characters as they are.
Terez
They, like the story itself, are ubertropes. There is more to them than that, just as there is more to the story.
Terez
I mean, have you SEEN the map of Tar Valon? It's supposed to be funny, people. And serious at the same time, of course.
Brandon
I've wondered about the map for Tar Valon. That..well, that can't be an accident. I've never asked Team Jordan, though.
James Furlong
Haha! Just clicked on, never noticed THAT before. Hoho!
Brandon
Needless to say, it wasn't something I noticed when I was a teen.
Terez
Someone asked RJ about it. Sort of. His answer was hilarious. http://bit.ly/g9vV0O
KOD book tour, Jarrod reporting:
Eventually Mr. Jordan turned to his quest of finding females that wanted some questions answered [RJ always said the females ask the dirty questions] and got a good one when a lady asked why the most powerful women in the world get their power in a pale, white shaft. The answer was “If you can’t grasp the symbolism, my dear… Because I thought about having them have their center of power be a hole in the ground and I thought it wasn’t really going to be as significant. It wasn’t going to stand out and have people say ‘Wow, Gee…look at that on the horizon’ You sorta have to walk to the edge and say ‘Welp, don’t wanna fall off into that, now do you?”
Richard Fife
Ya know, for some odd reason, I never really /saw/ the map of Tar Valon. Now I'll never unsee it...
Right after that I got email notifications that Brandon and Richard Fife are now following me on Twitter, lol.
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Last edited by Terez; 01-04-2011 at 07:31 PM.
  #15  
Old 01-05-2011, 12:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FelixPax View Post
But why is he "named Dragon"? Not the "Dragon Reborn"?

More is going on than meets the eye....
Because it's about the end of the Second Age, not the end of the Third Age. Hence why it's named "The Breaking Of The World."

Not that I expect you to grasp this any better than the last time I explained it to you, Felix.
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Old 01-05-2011, 01:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez View Post
Brandon
WoT Easter Egg: there's an easily overlooked line in the EotW prologue which gives huge foreshadowing of things Rand can do in TofM.
Terez
I always thought the fact that Lews Therin could sense that there were no people around for miles was interesting.
Brandon
I should have guessed that you'd be the only one who would pick out the right line, Terez.
Brandon
The Easter egg in the prologue has to do with Lews Therin sensing the lack of people around him for miles and miles.
Well Brandon stated it was important but unless there is some sort of Deus Ex Machina for the WoT End I cannot imagine how it would significantly impact Rand, I do not mind being enlightened though.
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"Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the last Day."
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Old 01-05-2011, 01:51 AM
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I've done my part by spamming him about Moiraine.

and I requested that we dwell on the scene where Moiraine ate "as tidily as if they were not squatting on bare stone quite literally in the middle of nowhere."


I don't know why but that always made me laugh. She'll probably walk to Shayol Ghul "as if she's on a shopping trip to Target to find hand towels."
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Old 01-05-2011, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez View Post
[SIZE=2][FONT=verdana]Brandon
WoT Easter Egg: there's an easily overlooked line in the EotW prologue which gives huge foreshadowing of things Rand can do in TofM.
Found it:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEOTW, Prologue, Dragonmount
Lews Therin raised his head, and the black-clad man took an involuntary step back from that gaze.
Yes, it is indeed obvious, now that it's been pointed out.

Edited to correct fairly relevant typo.

Last edited by GonzoTheGreat; 01-05-2011 at 08:33 AM.
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Old 01-05-2011, 08:05 AM
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I honestly never really thought about the map of Tar Valon...hmmm.
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Old 01-05-2011, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez View Post
Brandon
WoT Easter Egg: there's an easily overlooked line in the EotW prologue which gives huge foreshadowing of things Rand can do in TofM.
Terez
I always thought the fact that Lews Therin could sense that there were no people around for miles was interesting.
Brandon
I should have guessed that you'd be the only one who would pick out the right line, Terez.
Brandon
The Easter egg in the prologue has to do with Lews Therin sensing the lack of people around him for miles and miles.
Boo. I picked it out in two minutes of rereading the Prologue. So what was it foreshadowing in ToM? His trip to meet the Borderlanders?
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