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  #1  
Old 03-18-2011, 12:33 AM
kenpoguy kenpoguy is offline
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Default How Can Moiraine Lie?

I had this thought and wanted to see if anyone else had had it previously. I didn't see anything with a quick search of the forum, so here we go...

How can Moiraine use an alias? Wouldn't her standing in front of someone stating "I am the Lady Alys" be a lie? Anytime she introduces her self as the Lady Alys, she is lying, which is not allowed based on the rules of the Aes Sedai and their oaths.

Does anyone recall if this was explained anywhere? Was Alys a nickname she had, or something like that?

I just had that thought after so many years of reading this series and listening to the audio books and didn't have an answer. Hopefully someone else with a better memory for this stuff has a theory on why.
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  #2  
Old 03-18-2011, 12:52 AM
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No doubt she has foresworn the three oaths and gone over to the Shadow.

Here she will be known as Darkfriend.
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  #3  
Old 03-18-2011, 12:54 AM
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It's quite easy. it's also explained in the books.
She didn't say 'my name is lady Alys', but she said you may call me Lady Alys.
That's a big difference and not a lie.
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  #4  
Old 03-18-2011, 12:56 AM
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This seems to be a popular question lately. There was actually a debate about it on Twitter.
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  #5  
Old 03-18-2011, 01:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isabel View Post
It's quite easy. it's also explained in the books.
She didn't say 'my name is lady Alys', but she said you may call me Lady Alys.
That's a big difference and not a lie.
Right. I'll admit when reading the books I read the story and I don't look into the mysteries and theories and all that, so that usually results in me not being very observant. Therefore you may be able to find an instance of her "lying."
Note, however, that she can be wrong about things and has been before. But remember that in her mind she was being truthful. As far as I remember there are no instances of her lying. And as to you specific example, Isa has supplied the answer.
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  #6  
Old 03-18-2011, 03:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isabel View Post
It's quite easy. it's also explained in the books.
She didn't say 'my name is lady Alys', but she said you may call me Lady Alys.
That's a big difference and not a lie.
This is also a very early example of "The truth an Aes Sedai speaks may not be the truth you hear" -- also known as "Aes Sedai Twisting of the Truth."

Quote:
Originally Posted by tEotW
Ch 9
[Tam Al'thor] "It's good enough. It has to be, doesn't it? You see, lad, Aes Sedai are tricksome. They don't lie, not right out, but the truth an Aes Sedai tells you is not always the truth you think it is. You take care around her."
Quote:
Originally Posted by TGH
Ch 3
Mat touched his coat over the dagger, not seeming to realize what he was doing. "'An Aes Sedai's gift is bait for a fish,'" he quoted. "Well, maybe I don't want to put the hook in my mouth. Maybe whatever she wants to do in Tar Valon is worse than if I don't go at all. Maybe she's lying. 'The truth an Aes Sedai tells is never the truth you think it is.'"
Quote:
Originally Posted by tDR
CH 1
Perrin did not ask what news. The women gave the information they brought only to Moiraine.

And the Aes Sedai tells us what she chooses. He thought. Aes Sedai never lied, but it was said that the truth an Aes Sedai told you was not always the truth you thought it was. Too late for qualms, now. Isn't it?
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Last edited by Weird Harold; 03-18-2011 at 06:28 PM.
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  #7  
Old 03-18-2011, 11:12 AM
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All she needs is to convince one person to call her Lady Alys. Then she can tell the next person "I am called Lady Alys" and it won't be a lie.
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Old 03-18-2011, 03:21 PM
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And Lan can always get it started too.

I can't believe this was debated on Twitter.
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  #9  
Old 03-18-2011, 04:23 PM
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Not to mention the fact that she IS Lady Alys. And why not? I AM csarmi, though that is not my real name. If I gave that on a forum, I wouldn't be lying.
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  #10  
Old 03-19-2011, 04:09 PM
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If you want to talk about Aes Sedai inconsistency with the Oaths I would offer the practise of stilling for discussion.
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  #11  
Old 03-19-2011, 04:16 PM
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If you want to talk about Aes Sedai inconsistency with the Oaths I would offer the practise of stilling for discussion.
Why? How is Stilling relevant to discussion of the Three Oaths?
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Old 03-19-2011, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Weird Harold View Post
Why? How is Stilling relevant to discussion of the Three Oaths?
Good question. It's not as if it is "using the OP as a weapon" in any way, is it?
Nor could the weave used be classified in any way as "a weapon for one man to kill another", as it is wielded by women*.

* In the case of stilling instead of gentling, it isn't even wielded against men.
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  #13  
Old 03-19-2011, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
Good question. It's not as if it is "using the OP as a weapon" in any way, is it?
Nor could the weave used be classified in any way as "a weapon for one man to kill another", as it is wielded by women*.

* In the case of stilling instead of gentling, it isn't even wielded against men.
Lol. Stilling and gentling should be classified as severe battery. Even a switch of air could be used as a weapon.
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  #14  
Old 03-19-2011, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weird Harold View Post
Why? How is Stilling relevant to discussion of the Three Oaths?
What does practically Aes Sedai assume stilled woman go off and do?

You can find numerous quotes throughout the books where it's mentioned that stilled women basically crawl away to die.

As a result of the stilling.

It takes some really corkscrewy type logic for an Aes Sedai to detach the practise of stilling from the whole "not killing people with the power except etc etc".

But it's basically execution that takes a while to kick in; and many sisters express views to that effect.
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Old 03-19-2011, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Spasmodean View Post
It takes some really corkscrewy type logic for an Aes Sedai to detach the practise of stilling from the whole "not killing people with the power except etc etc".
Which Oath is about "not killing people with the power?" It isn't the Third Oath:

Quote:
Upon being raised to the shawl, Aes Sedai swear three oaths on the Oath Rod which binds them to the oaths:

1. To speak no word that is not true.

2. To make no weapon for one man to kill another.

3. Never to use the One Power as a weapon except against Darkfriends or Shadowspawn, or in the last extreme of defending your own life, that of your Warder, or that of another sister.
An executioners axe or a surgeon's scalpel are not "weapons" they are tools for punishment and Stilling is a punishment; one does not use weapons to punish, one uses tools.

Semantic distinctions are the very lifeblood of Aes Sedai when it comes to the Oaths, but they are also the lifeblood civilization.
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Old 04-17-2011, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weird Harold View Post
An executioners axe or a surgeon's scalpel are not "weapons" they are tools for punishment and Stilling is a punishment; one does not use weapons to punish, one uses tools.
Wait.

You think a surgeon's scalpel is a tool for punishment?
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Old 04-17-2011, 10:48 AM
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You think a surgeon's scalpel is a tool for punishment?
Does it have any other uses?
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Old 04-17-2011, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
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Wait.

You think a surgeon's scalpel is a tool for punishment?
When used to cause damage it is, much as the OP is a tool for punishment when used to sever someone's connection to the OP.
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Old 04-17-2011, 04:17 PM
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I feel like I'm in a neverending loop (or wheel, if you will) with these questions.
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Old 02-18-2012, 07:40 PM
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Wieramon could be right i mean she could be a dark friend. Another possibliity is that she forgot her name and thought it was alys because she just read through the looking glass by lews carol a popular author in the wheel of time who writes nonsensical stories about a girl named alys.
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