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  #1  
Old 06-02-2011, 10:00 PM
neurotopia neurotopia is offline
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Default So who's gonna turn/revealed as Darkfriend in AMoL?

I've got my money on Perrin. There's been just too many "anything to save Faile" moments for it not to be foreshadowing. She gets offed, he makes a deal with the Lord of the Grave.

I know it probably won't happen, but I've got a tickle in my mind about Moiraine. Mostly because of how things are phrased with her. Rarely does she talk about Rand winning the Last Battle, but merely "seeing him to it". Seems to be the BA way of thinking. However I'm not finding much else in the way of motivation for her.
  #2  
Old 06-02-2011, 10:20 PM
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Are you reading the same books as we are?
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  #3  
Old 06-02-2011, 10:56 PM
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Are you reading the same books as we are?
Maybe he's reading an alternate series?
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Old 06-03-2011, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by neurotopia View Post
I've got my money on Perrin. There's been just too many "anything to save Faile" moments for it not to be foreshadowing. She gets offed, he makes a deal with the Lord of the Grave.
That would actually be a really cool twist but I can't see it happening somehow.
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Originally Posted by neurotopia View Post
I know it probably won't happen, but I've got a tickle in my mind about Moiraine. Mostly because of how things are phrased with her. Rarely does she talk about Rand winning the Last Battle, but merely "seeing him to it". Seems to be the BA way of thinking. However I'm not finding much else in the way of motivation for her.
Not a chance imo.

BTW whatever you are on, are you willing to share it? Cause that must be some good shit.
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Old 06-03-2011, 12:25 AM
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Maybe he's reading an alternate series?
I actually think an alternate series written from the perspective of the Great Lord and his Chosen as they try to rid the world of all dharma and suffering allowing all creatures on Randland to achieve a permanent state of nirvana.

But of course they have their battles with the Creator, and his personal servant The Dragon, as they foolishly grasp at existence and attempt to continue their existence, to scared to face death, opposing the Great Lord in his attempts to bring freedom to all.

This would also explain why Ishamael, the greatest philosopher, saw the error of his ways and chose the correct side.

I think that would be a really cool story if well written so that you really felt the Great Lord and his Chosen were pure in their beliefs and efforts to eradicate suffering.
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Old 06-03-2011, 12:28 AM
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Realised I got so carried away that I forgot to answer the main point of the thread.

I have no firm ideas as to who will be revealed as dark. But I am betting on at least one Wise Woman and Clan Chief. We have so far only seen one darkfriend Aiel in the series and there have to be more of them - some in positions of authority.
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Old 06-03-2011, 01:16 AM
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Yes, there probably will be some more Darkfriend Aiel. Probably thinking along the lines of more battles to fight, more people to kill etc...but hopefully the way they're revealed isn't Rand's 'I look at you. You are Darkfriend!'
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Old 06-03-2011, 01:30 AM
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Yes, there probably will be some more Darkfriend Aiel. Probably thinking along the lines of more battles to fight, more people to kill etc...but hopefully the way they're revealed isn't Rand's 'I look at you. You are Darkfriend!'
There has been quite a bit of speculation surrounding Bair and Sorilea, mostly following their witnessing of the hiding place of the e've which was subsequently used by Semirhage on Rand.
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Old 06-03-2011, 01:38 AM
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There has been quite a bit of speculation surrounding Bair and Sorilea, mostly following their witnessing of the hiding place of the e've which was subsequently used by Semirhage on Rand.
Yeah there was that plus wasn't there a suggestion that Rand's imminent attack on Rahvin was leaked. And one of the two was a prime suspect for the leak? I'm going purely off memory here so I could well be mistaken.
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Old 06-03-2011, 01:44 AM
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Yes, there probably will be some more Darkfriend Aiel. Probably thinking along the lines of more battles to fight, more people to kill etc...but hopefully the way they're revealed isn't Rand's 'I look at you. You are Darkfriend!'
I don't think they will be revealed that way. I think that only happened because Rand got a letter from Verin informing him. Because as far as we know Nalaene is black and still with Rand's group. I don't believe for a second that he can tell a darkfriend just by looking at them - I think he just wanted to give people that impression.

But I agree that hopefully there is an epic scene where we find out that a high-ranking Aiel is a darkfriend.
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  #11  
Old 06-03-2011, 04:57 AM
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. I don't believe for a second that he can tell a darkfriend just by looking at them - I think he just wanted to give people that impression.
There is foreshadowing of Rand's ability to do just that as early as The Shadow Rising.
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Old 06-03-2011, 05:10 AM
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I'll go with Lord Edorion of House Selorna.
No proof, just circumstantial evidence.
He's the first to find Rand outside Cairhien in TFOH, he catches on faster, notices things others miss and seems to ask a lot questions.
And then there's this supremely ironic line (LOC ch 5 - Edorion has noticed signs that the Band may be moving soon from Maerone and asks Mat about it)
"We'll move when we move" Mat told him. "No need to let Sammael know we're coming." Endorion gave him a level look. This Tairen was no dunce.
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Old 06-03-2011, 06:04 AM
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There is foreshadowing of Rand's ability to do just that as early as The Shadow Rising.
So you think he can tell who is a darkfriend just by looking? So Naleane has just been keeping out of sight then? And so you would be willing to bet that no one else who was there in Tear was a darkfriend? That none of the WT guards are darkfriends?

You may be right, but I hope not as it will make it pretty boring if he can just look at someone and know they are a darkfriend.

Not all foreshadowing has to come true otherwise there is no subtlety or fun to it, if it's just a matter of reading something and then knowing that it will happen later on. I think a lot of things have been said throughout the book and some of them are foreshadowing, some are red herrings and some are just statements. When you get multiple cases suggesting the same thing then you have a strong cause to believe it is foreshadowing some future event.
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Old 06-03-2011, 06:32 AM
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So you think he can tell who is a darkfriend just by looking? So Naleane has just been keeping out of sight then? And so you would be willing to bet that no one else who was there in Tear was a darkfriend? That none of the WT guards are darkfriends?

You may be right, but I hope not as it will make it pretty boring if he can just look at someone and know they are a darkfriend.

Not all foreshadowing has to come true otherwise there is no subtlety or fun to it, if it's just a matter of reading something and then knowing that it will happen later on. I think a lot of things have been said throughout the book and some of them are foreshadowing, some are red herrings and some are just statements. When you get multiple cases suggesting the same thing then you have a strong cause to believe it is foreshadowing some future event.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TSR, 36 "Misdirections"

"His Eyes," Rand said without looking away from the wagons. "A dangerous man."

Mat frowned at him. "Whose eyes? Couladin's?"

"Kadere's eyes. All that sweating, going white in the face. Yet his eyes never changed. You always have to watch the eyes. Not what he seems."
Kadere was a darkfriend; working for Lanfear and Asmodean. It's worth pointing out that this is the point in the story where Rand is at his most distant. He is still trying to work out what to do, and has not yet learned to channel properly or started hearing Lews Therin in his head. He does however appear to be more worldly wise than a man of his years and experiences ought to be.

Even if Rand cannot "sense" a darkfriend directly as a result of looking into their eyes, he clearly has some ability to "read" a lot about a person by looking into their eyes. He does it here and he does it in TOM.

On top of that, eyes are important throughout the series; consider Mat giving up "half the light of the world to save the world" - he gives up an eye. Eyes are associated with the light and with the soul.

So no, Rand cannot sense a DF "just by looking at them". However, I believe and have some evidence backing up my assertion that he can detect darkfriends by looking into their eyes.

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  #15  
Old 06-03-2011, 07:35 AM
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Are we forgetting that its not so much taht Rand can "see" darkfriends but rather that Darkfriends can't look directly at him without wincing at this point. We saw that at both Tear and Maradon. Its not Rand magically reading their souls, its their inability to meet his eyes that he picked up on and the Maradon guy ripping his own eyes out.
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Old 06-03-2011, 07:47 AM
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Are we forgetting that its not so much taht Rand can "see" darkfriends but rather that Darkfriends can't look directly at him without wincing at this point. We saw that at both Tear and Maradon. Its not Rand magically reading their souls, its their inability to meet his eyes that he picked up on and the Maradon guy ripping his own eyes out.
Rand was still able to pick up on there being something off about Kadere, even if he wasn't sure it was Darkfriendliness. At that point, it may even have been purely to do with him not having tested it 100% and worked out that it was always DFs who he got "dangerous" from.

Regardless, it is all to do with the eyes - Rand's eyes, a Darkfriend's eyes, Ishamael's eyes of flame. If you're a DF and you can't look Rand in the eye, why do you think that is?
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Old 06-03-2011, 10:31 AM
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At the time, Rand was also trying to figure out who Asmodean and Lanfear were. He knew that Kadere and his fellows had been sent there by two Forsaken, he knew that those two Forsaken were part of the group. So being suspicious of one of the leaders of the group was not unreasonable. Trying to make Mat a bit suspicious of such a person (without giving away that he'd been conspiring with an ex-girlfriend to hire a Forsaken teacher) is also sensible.
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Old 06-03-2011, 11:33 AM
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At the time, Rand was also trying to figure out who Asmodean and Lanfear were. He knew that Kadere and his fellows had been sent there by two Forsaken, he knew that those two Forsaken were part of the group. So being suspicious of one of the leaders of the group was not unreasonable. Trying to make Mat a bit suspicious of such a person (without giving away that he'd been conspiring with an ex-girlfriend to hire a Forsaken teacher) is also sensible.
I wouldn't call the conversation with Lanfear at the start of TSR "conspiring". He dismissed the idea out of hand - openly, at least.
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Old 06-03-2011, 11:38 AM
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I don't think they will be revealed that way. I think that only happened because Rand got a letter from Verin informing him. Because as far as we know Nalaene is black and still with Rand's group. I don't believe for a second that he can tell a darkfriend just by looking at them - I think he just wanted to give people that impression.
Burn my eyes, it's as clear as day that after getting some letter from Verin Sedai, the Lord Dragon somehow got the idea to place people he could trust high among the followers of the Shadow.

It would not be a surprise to hear he staged a very public exiling of one or two of his most trusted servants, to send them on such an important tssk. Rumour has it that his quarrel with that clumsy blacksmith from the Two Rivers was just such a ploy.
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Old 06-03-2011, 01:39 PM
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Rand was still able to pick up on there being something off about Kadere, even if he wasn't sure it was Darkfriendliness.
Yet he was totally clueless about Elza...and of course, he was clueless about Weiramon until Verin tipped him off.
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