art by =saintchase

Theoryland Resources

WoT Interview Search

Search the most comprehensive database of interviews and book signings from Robert Jordan, Brandon Sanderson and the rest of Team Jordan.

Wheel of Time News

An Hour With Harriet

2012-04-30: I had the great pleasure of speaking with Harriet McDougal Rigney about her life. She's an amazing talent and person and it will take you less than an hour to agree.

The Bell Tolls

2012-04-24: Some thoughts I had during JordanCon4 and the upcoming conclusion of "The Wheel of Time."

Theoryland Community

Members: 7611

Logged In (0):

Newest Members:johnroserking, petermorris, johnadanbvv, AndrewHB, jofwu, Salemcat1, Dhakatimesnews, amazingz, Sasooner, Hasib123,

Theoryland Tweets

Forums

Home | Chat | Old Forums(Yuku)


Go Back   Theoryland of the Wheel of Time Forums > THEORYLAND STEDDINGS > Forum Archives > Archived - WoT Discussion Boards > Archived: General Wheel of Time Discussion - 05/2008 - 03/2012
User Name
Password

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-23-2011, 11:17 AM
Ishara's Avatar
Ishara Ishara is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,424
Ishara has disabled reputation
Send a message via MSN to Ishara
Default CotW - Moiraine Damodred

To recap the concept:

First, pop over here for the main thread, to see our list of upcoming characters.

I’d like discussions to link back to any existing theories, threads and ideas, but let’s try and integrate them into new theories, thoughts and ideas okay? This is less to do with whether we “like” characters – we are Theorylanders, and we are not vapid. If you want to be a Theorylander, practice thinking critically and objectively. Don’t worry, we’ll help!

(And remember: a new character of the week does preclude continuing discussion on past topics!)

This week, we'll be discussing: Moiraine Damodred

Moiraine remains one of the most mysterious characters in the WoT pantheon.

Feel free to cover information ranging from ALL books, which means that those who have NOT read ToM had better BEWARE SPOILERS.

Potential topics for discussion?

You may know by now that I have been vehemently against the return of Moiraine for years (I hooped on Frenzy's wagon, or we drove side-by-side, take your pick.) I strongly believe that the rescue of the damsel in distress in the highest tower did a hell of a lot more harm than it did good - to both Moiraine the character as well to the concept that RJ and WoT show strong female characters, dissimilar to most fantasy out there. If Moiraine, the female equivalent to Gandalf, needs to be rescued, then what hope do the rest of them have? So, let's explore both the prodigal return, as well as the positive and negative effects her return will cause.

What will Rand do when he finds out she's back? What will SHE do when she sees him again?

What could Moiraine possibly do to affect the success of Rand in winning the Last Battle?

Are Moiraine and Thom destined for love? Unfortunately it seems so. For an author who would set up plays in book 1 that wouldn't see fruition until book 10, I found their so-called courtship to be lacking, which left me feeling very ambivalent about the letter and their supposed love. I have been over-ruled by a snuggling Moiraine. (Unhappy face) Even if they are, will she succumb to personal happiness or forever pursue the greater good? Again, it seems as if we saw the answer to this in ToM, what with the stupid snuggling, but Rand apparently needs her, so what now? How to balance those two competing interests?

How DID she and Lan arrive in the Two Rivers right on time?
__________________
Courage my friends, it's not too late for a better world. -- Tommy Douglas

Rand: You are an insensitive bastard!!!
Mat: And you ruined another hat!


It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by lightening. -- Calvin

"Gee, I wish I could do magic! Maybe I'll try!" --SDog

Official Vixen of Theoryland and Theoryland Siren

Grain Goddess, the Rood Inverse, the Mad Glomper

Last edited by Ishara; 07-29-2011 at 05:14 PM.
  #2  
Old 07-23-2011, 11:37 AM
Sarevok's Avatar
Sarevok Sarevok is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 3,053
Sarevok is a splendid one to beholdSarevok is a splendid one to beholdSarevok is a splendid one to beholdSarevok is a splendid one to beholdSarevok is a splendid one to beholdSarevok is a splendid one to beholdSarevok is a splendid one to beholdSarevok is a splendid one to beholdSarevok is a splendid one to beholdSarevok is a splendid one to behold
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishara View Post
What will Rand do when he finds out she's back? What will SHE do when she sees him again?
He'll probably feel even better than he already does.
She'll probably be happy to find he's been coping so well.

Quote:
What could Moiraine possibly do to affect the success of Rand in winning the Last Battle?
Take over from Cadsuane in counseling? Not really sure, otherwise.

Quote:
How to balance those two competing interests?
She'll probably go to find Rand right at the start of aMoL (or possibly after she helps Mat clean up whatever is happening in Caemlyn).

Quote:
How DID she and Lan arrive in the Two Rivers right on time?
Pure luck, probably ta'veren-influenced.
__________________
Bonded to Cary Sedai
Warder-brother to Shock Lance
Der'morat'raken of the TCA

the Grey Viper, the Lord of Forsaken Roads, the Pink Sunset
  #3  
Old 07-23-2011, 11:39 AM
Kimon's Avatar
Kimon Kimon is offline
Ancient
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 3,306
Kimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishara View Post

What could Moiraine possibly do to affect the success of Rand in winning the Last Battle?
There seems to be three likely possibilities.

1. She will be one of the two ladies needed to link with Rand to use Callandor in TG. Maybe this was the crux, and what Min saw with Alivia was really an "if" - If it's Moiraine, victory. If it's Alivia, "I have won again, Lews Therin".

2. She has some special knowledge brought back from the finn. Maybe she learned how to seal the DO safely.

3. She saves Rand from Cyndane. Certainly at the end of ToM we saw Cyndane's trap, and it certainly looked like Rand was apt to fall into it.
  #4  
Old 07-23-2011, 12:36 PM
jana's Avatar
jana jana is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,051
jana has a reputation beyond reputejana has a reputation beyond reputejana has a reputation beyond reputejana has a reputation beyond reputejana has a reputation beyond reputejana has a reputation beyond reputejana has a reputation beyond reputejana has a reputation beyond reputejana has a reputation beyond reputejana has a reputation beyond reputejana has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishara View Post
Are Moiraine and Thom destined for love? Unfortunately it seems so. For an author who would set up plays in book 1 that wouldn't see fruition until book 10, I found their so-called courtship to be lacking, which left me feeling very ambivalent about the letter and their supposed love. I have been over-ruled by a snuggling Moiraine. (Unhappy face) Even if they are, will she succumb to personal happiness or forever pursue the greater good? Again, it seems as if we saw the answer to this in ToM, what with the stupid snuggling, but Rand apparently needs her, so what now? How to balance those two competing interests?
I was burned out on discussing most of this in October, so I'll just reply to this part.

IF Moiraine and Thom are "cute" in the last book, then I will agree with some of what you've said and be annoyed.

But I don't think there is any chance of that. I think she's gotten it out of her system and will be completely business like. We definitely didn't see the answer to your question in ToM. We saw someone having a reaction to seeing humans for the first time in 10 months.

I just don't see Moiraine acting in any way similar to the way she acted in Towers of Midnight in public. I don't consider Mat to be "public" after what the three of them just shared.

But if I'm wrong I will agree with you because I don't want her to be acting romantical either. I was fine with it in those circumstances but I think it's done now and she'll be back to being Cairhienin.
  #5  
Old 07-23-2011, 01:16 PM
David Selig David Selig is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 391
David Selig is a glorious beacon of lightDavid Selig is a glorious beacon of lightDavid Selig is a glorious beacon of lightDavid Selig is a glorious beacon of lightDavid Selig is a glorious beacon of lightDavid Selig is a glorious beacon of lightDavid Selig is a glorious beacon of light
Default

She should've stayed dead. Unfortunately Jordan loved his "woman needs saving" plotlines WAY too much, and overused them shamelessly in WoT, and couldn't leave Moiraine without one of those for her. I suspect Cadsuane will get captured and saved in AMOL, it's long overdue.

Quote:
What will Rand do when he finds out she's back?
"Damn, I wasted so much time mentioning her in my "Dead Women list", and she's been alive all along? I am such an woolhead. "

Quote:
Again, it seems as if we saw the answer to this in ToM, what with the stupid snuggling, but Rand apparently needs her, so what now? How to balance those two competing interests?
She'd be all business once she gets close to Rand and the important things going on in Randland. I just can't see anything else from her, she's been preparing her whole life for this moment, her love life can wait.
  #6  
Old 07-23-2011, 02:06 PM
FelixPax's Avatar
FelixPax FelixPax is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,612
FelixPax has a brilliant futureFelixPax has a brilliant futureFelixPax has a brilliant futureFelixPax has a brilliant futureFelixPax has a brilliant futureFelixPax has a brilliant futureFelixPax has a brilliant futureFelixPax has a brilliant futureFelixPax has a brilliant futureFelixPax has a brilliant futureFelixPax has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishara View Post
Potential topics for discussion?

You may know by now that I have been vehemently against the return of Moiraine for years (I hooped on Frenzy's wagon, or we drove side-by-side, take your pick.) I strongly believe that the rescue of the damsel in distress in the highest tower did a hell of a lot more harm than it did good - to both Moiraine the character as well to the concept that RJ and WoT show strong female characters, dissimilar to most fantasy out there.
Recall the Promise, Rand gave to Moiraine at the very beginning of 'The Eye of the World'?

Moiraine has never called due, Rand's Promise.
Rand's Promise, I believe shall be the death of him and almost every Shadowspawn.

A huge exception is Moghedien. The Spider knows how and can survive literally anything.

Quite morbid actually, shall Moiraine call upon Rand al'Thor to killed himself to try to 'save a world' against Shadowspawn?

Moiraine and her Aes Sedai plots... Nynaeve's assumptions about Moiraine were on the ball in the beginning. (See tEotW, Chapter 21 "Listen to the Wind")


Moiraine's assumptions about the three ta'veren boys, should be upset in the next book, by a fourth ta'veren appearance. Moiraine pushed Rand al'Thor to make a claim he was the 'Dragon Reborn'. Nynaeve knows this, Moiraine's a manipulator.
  #7  
Old 07-23-2011, 03:23 PM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is online now
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 15,817
GonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FelixPax View Post
Recall the Promise, Rand gave to Moiraine at the very beginning of 'The Eye of the World'?
Promise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEOTW
I promised to unload the cider.
Of course, it's possible you're thinking of the more prosaic, but also less certain:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEOTW
"I can never repay you," he told her without taking his eyes from Tam, "but anything I can do for you, I will. Anything at all." He remembered the talk of prices, then, and his promise. Kneeling beside Tam he meant it even more than before, but it still was not easy to look at her. "Anything. As long as it does not hurt the village, or my friends."
PS It's really tempting to add a NeotW quote. I would've, if I had known a good one.
  #8  
Old 07-23-2011, 03:33 PM
Zombie Sammael's Avatar
Zombie Sammael Zombie Sammael is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Too close to New South Wales
Posts: 3,225
Zombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Skype™ to Zombie Sammael
Default

I find it quite frustrating that both Moiraine and Siuan have seemingly had to give up strength in the One Power in order to find true love. What is the problem with powerful women, or for these two? Elayne seems comfortable with Rand, and Egwene has managed to reach an accommodation with Gawyn. Why do Moiraine and Siuan need to lose OP strength to get with Thom and Bryn?
__________________
Sa souvraya niende misain ye

Master of the lightnings, rider on the storm,
wearer of a crown of swords, spinner out of fate.
Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time,
may learn the truth too late.

Light is held before the maw of the infinite void, and all that he is can be seized.

The one who Death has known
  #9  
Old 07-23-2011, 04:30 PM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is online now
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 15,817
GonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
I find it quite frustrating that both Moiraine and Siuan have seemingly had to give up strength in the One Power in order to find true love. What is the problem with powerful women, or for these two? Elayne seems comfortable with Rand, and Egwene has managed to reach an accommodation with Gawyn. Why do Moiraine and Siuan need to lose OP strength to get with Thom and Bryn?
The point with them is perhaps not so much giving up strength, as it is becoming less single minded. For a couple of decades, both had been focused purely on finding and 'helping'* the Dragon Reborn. During all that time they had been either convinced that they did not have time for romantic entanglements, or they had not even considered the possibility. Now their whole approach has been thrashed, either by losing the Amyrlin Seat (Siuan) or by being removed from the DR and having most of her channeling ability taken away (Moiraine). So they have to reinvent themselves, and now find that they do have some room for love after all.

Elayne doesn't have this problem; she managed to combine a focus on the DR with being in love. Egwene ... well, I'll refrain from cluttering up this thread with her. And Cadsuane is gonna hook up with Valan Luca as soon as they meet.

* Controlling.
  #10  
Old 07-24-2011, 12:03 AM
FelixPax's Avatar
FelixPax FelixPax is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,612
FelixPax has a brilliant futureFelixPax has a brilliant futureFelixPax has a brilliant futureFelixPax has a brilliant futureFelixPax has a brilliant futureFelixPax has a brilliant futureFelixPax has a brilliant futureFelixPax has a brilliant futureFelixPax has a brilliant futureFelixPax has a brilliant futureFelixPax has a brilliant future
Default Moiraine's a villian? Dunsinin? Blaes of Matuchin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
Promise?


Of course, it's possible you're thinking of the more prosaic, but also less certain:
Laugh, Rand's very first promise was to his father to unload the cider.

Gonzo nailed it, meanwhile Lan goes all morose in front of Rand:

Quote:
“A little more light in the darkness,” the Aes Sedai murmured. She raised her voice. “How are your dreams, Rand al’Thor?”
He stared at her. “My dreams?”

“A night like that can give a man bad dreams, Rand. If you have nightmares, you must tell me of it. I can help with bad dreams, sometimes.”

“There’s nothing wrong with my . . . It’s my father. He’s hurt. It’s not much more than a scratch, but the fever is burning him up. The Wisdom won’t help. She says she can’t. But the stories—” She raised an eyebrow, and he stopped and swallowed hard. Light, is there a story with an Aes Sedai where she isn’t a villain? He looked at the Warder, but Lan appeared more interested in the dead Trolloc than in anything Rand might say. Fumbling his way under her eyes, he went on. “I . . . ah . . . it’s said Aes Sedai can heal. If you can help him . . . anything you can do for him . . . whatever the cost . . . I mean . . . ” He took a deep breath and finished up in a rush. “I’ll pay any price in my power if you help him. Anything.”

“Any price,” Moiraine mused, half to herself. “We will speak of prices later, Rand, if at all.
I can make no promises. Your Wisdom knows what she is about. I will do what I can, but it is beyond my power to stop the Wheel from turning.”

“Death comes sooner or later to everyone,” the Warder said grimly, “unless they serve the Dark One, and only fools are willing to pay that price.”

Moiraine made a clucking sound. “Do not be so gloomy, Lan. We have some reason to celebrate. A small one, but a reason.” She used the staff to pull herself to her feet. “Take me to your father, Rand. I will help him as much as I am able. Too many here have refused to let me help at all. They have heard the stories, too,” she added dryly.


The Eye of the World, Chapter 7 "Out of the Woods" -- Rand al'Thor point of view; with Moiraine, Lan

On a more positive side, I've frequently wondered if Blaes of Matuchin was re-born as Moiraine Damodred? Where might Matuchin Hall be?
Quote:
“ . . . since the day of her birth has the Dark One marked Blaes as his own, but not of this mind is she—no Darkfriend, Blaes of Matuchin! Strong as the ash she stands, lithe as the willow branch, beautiful as the rose. Golden-haired Blaes. Ready to die before she yields. But hark! Echoing from the towers of the city, trumpets blare, brazen and bold. Her heralds proclaim the arrival of a hero at her court. Drums thunder and cymbals sing! Rogosh Eagle-eye comes to do homage . . . ”


The Eye of the World, Chapter 17 "Watchers and Hunters" -- Rand al'Thor point of view; Thom telling a story in a Baerlon Inn

Or if Dunsinin soul perhaps was re-born as Moiraine?
Quote:
“ . . . cold blows the wind down Shara Pass; cold lies the grave unmarked. Yet every year at Sunday, upon those piled stones appears a single rose, one crystal teardrop like dew upon the petals, laid by the fair hand of Dunsinin, for she keeps fast to the bargain made by Rogosh Eagle-eye.”


The Great Hunt, Chapter 25 "Cairhien" -- Rand al'Thor point of view; with Thom
Always fun to speculate who is who, historical to present. Doesn't hurt that ties have direct plot outcome too.
  #11  
Old 07-24-2011, 12:33 AM
The Unreasoner's Avatar
The Unreasoner The Unreasoner is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,382
The Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I realize this is pretty stupid but fwiw I thought one of Moiraine's wishes was to go back in time. After TFoH I thought she was Mordaine. I hinged this on Moiraine wondering what would come of the Aiel in the end, and some of the Aiel memories of Aes Sedai.

But, of couse, in LoC I found out that stepping outside of time was beyond the DO, and so I figured it was beyond the Finn.
__________________
Exfeuck? Not quite...
  #12  
Old 07-24-2011, 07:49 AM
Zombie Sammael's Avatar
Zombie Sammael Zombie Sammael is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Too close to New South Wales
Posts: 3,225
Zombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Skype™ to Zombie Sammael
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unreasoner View Post
But, of couse, in LoC I found out that stepping outside of time was beyond the DO, and so I figured it was beyond the Finn.
Why? The Finn apparently have the power to do just that, if their interactions with Matrim Cauthon are anything to go by - they plucked those memories from somewhere, as they did with the Foxhead, and the ashandarei. If they can grab things out of time, why should they be unable to drop them back in?
__________________
Sa souvraya niende misain ye

Master of the lightnings, rider on the storm,
wearer of a crown of swords, spinner out of fate.
Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time,
may learn the truth too late.

Light is held before the maw of the infinite void, and all that he is can be seized.

The one who Death has known
  #13  
Old 07-24-2011, 11:19 AM
The Unreasoner's Avatar
The Unreasoner The Unreasoner is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,382
The Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond repute
Default

it took me a while to find this:
Quote:
With his Far Dareis Mai escort, Rand approached the Rhuidean Roof of the Maidens. White stairs as wide as the tall building, each step a stride deep, ran up to thick columns twenty paces high, black-seeming in the twilight but bright blue by day, and fluted in spirals. The outside of the building was a patterned mosaic of glazed tiles, white and blue in spirals that appeared endless to the eye, and a huge window of colored glass directly above the columns showed a black-haired woman fifteen feet tall, in complicated blue robes, right hand upraised, either to bless or command a halt. Her face was serene and stern at the same time. Whoever she had been, she was surely no Aiel, not with that pale skin and those dark eyes. An Aes Sedai, perhaps. He tapped his pipe out on his bootheel and stuffed it into his coat pocket before starting up the steps.
-From tFoH
So mystery Aes Sedai in the tiles looking suspiciously like Moiraine (or Lanfear), I thought it was reasonably possible that the tiles were made to depict Mordaine, who might have been the last Aes Sedai to visit Rhuidean. After Moiraine went through the doorway, I thought she went back through time for some unknown reason. But Mordaine has white hair, and while that doesn't preclude Illusion, it makes the case for Mordaine being depicted in the tiles less strong.

@Zombie Sammael
As far as I know, nothing the Finn do demands time travel.
__________________
Exfeuck? Not quite...
  #14  
Old 07-24-2011, 11:45 AM
Ishara's Avatar
Ishara Ishara is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,424
Ishara has disabled reputation
Send a message via MSN to Ishara
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
I find it quite frustrating that both Moiraine and Siuan have seemingly had to give up strength in the One Power in order to find true love. What is the problem with powerful women, or for these two? Elayne seems comfortable with Rand, and Egwene has managed to reach an accommodation with Gawyn. Why do Moiraine and Siuan need to lose OP strength to get with Thom and Bryn?
Ugh. Agreed. As if RJ set up the two most powerful women in the world, and then knocked them down to be rescued by, and dependent on, men. Blech. Makes me feel all squicky inside.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
Why? The Finn apparently have the power to do just that, if their interactions with Matrim Cauthon are anything to go by - they plucked those memories from somewhere, as they did with the Foxhead, and the ashandarei. If they can grab things out of time, why should they be unable to drop them back in?
So, this delves (again) into Finnlore, but the memories came from adventurers and travellers who ventured into Finnland, most likely from the Redstone Doors. The *Finn, as part of their interaction with humans, delve into memories, and in the case of these men, latched onto them in such a way that they were able to continue mining their memories, even after they had left the realm of the *Finn and gone back to their lives until their deaths (in battle, for most of them). Those memories were what were given to Mat to fill in the wholes of his own memory.

So, it doesn't mean that they can go back in time so much as it means that they just had a bunch of really old memories from a long time ago, as they have been around a very long time.
__________________
Courage my friends, it's not too late for a better world. -- Tommy Douglas

Rand: You are an insensitive bastard!!!
Mat: And you ruined another hat!


It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by lightening. -- Calvin

"Gee, I wish I could do magic! Maybe I'll try!" --SDog

Official Vixen of Theoryland and Theoryland Siren

Grain Goddess, the Rood Inverse, the Mad Glomper
  #15  
Old 07-24-2011, 02:24 PM
FelixPax's Avatar
FelixPax FelixPax is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,612
FelixPax has a brilliant futureFelixPax has a brilliant futureFelixPax has a brilliant futureFelixPax has a brilliant futureFelixPax has a brilliant futureFelixPax has a brilliant futureFelixPax has a brilliant futureFelixPax has a brilliant futureFelixPax has a brilliant futureFelixPax has a brilliant futureFelixPax has a brilliant future
Default Does Moiraine's past love life include, both Thom and Nynaeve?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unreasoner View Post
I realize this is pretty stupid but fwiw I thought one of Moiraine's wishes was to go back in time. After TFoH I thought she was Mordaine.
You were on the right train of thought previously....


Laughing, you missed Brandon Sanderson claiming during a book tour that people seen during the Rhuidean scenes (Rand's pov via Mandein) were re-born major characters?
Moiraine, Thom among others.


Which meant Thom/Dermon possibly had a second wife, in Rhuidean, other than Mordaine/Moiraine soul? Or from Mordaine's point of view, a sister-wife?

Narisse?


Can't say I know who Narisse's soul was with any degree certainty at this point. However, I'd laugh hilariously if Narisse was the same soul, as Nynaeve al'Meara.

Why so amusing?

Because Nynaeve has questioned any women's taste who would find Thom attractive as a lover, to Nynaeve's utter jealousy, rage, mixed emotions directly aimed at Moiraine and her control over Lan.


Perhaps once a lover of Thom's in a prior lifetime, and a sister-wife to Moiraine to boot?
Quote:
The old gleeman always seemed to put together rumors and whispers and come up with right answers far more often than not. No, not a gleeman; she had to remember that. Whatever he might claim, he had been a court-bard, and had probably seen court intrigue like that in his stories at close hand. Perhaps even dabbled in it himself, if he had been Morgase’s lover. She eyed him sideways, that leathery face with bushy white eyebrows, those long mustaches as snowy as the hair on his head. There was no accounting for some women’s taste.


The Fires of Heaven Chapter 17 "Heading West" -- Nynaeve al'Meara point of view; her thoughts

Quote:
A gaunt white-haired man, tall if stooped, came forward from the Jenn flanked by two graying women who might have been sisters, with the same deep-set green eyes and the same way of tilting their heads when they looked at anything. The rest of the Jenn stared uneasily at the earth rather than at the Aiel, but not these three.

“I am Dermon,” the man said in a deep strong voice, his blue eyed scrutiny as steady as any Aiel’s. “These are Mordaine and Narisse.” He gestured to the women beside him in turn. “We speak for Rhuidean, and the Jenn Aiel.”


The Shadow Rising, Chapter 25 "The Road to the Spear" -- Rand al'Thor point of view via Mandein

Last edited by FelixPax; 07-24-2011 at 02:28 PM.
  #16  
Old 07-25-2011, 09:30 AM
WinespringBrother's Avatar
WinespringBrother WinespringBrother is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,889
WinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant future
Send a message via AIM to WinespringBrother
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishara View Post
Ugh. Agreed. As if RJ set up the two most powerful women in the world, and then knocked them down to be rescued by, and dependent on, men. Blech. Makes me feel all squicky inside.
Siuan and Moiraine are weaker in the One Power (which I think everyone believes is a dumb ranking system anyway), but I don't see them as weaker because of that change. They are still powerful in terms of personality and commitment. Besides, Moiraine was acting weak in TFOH to manipulate Rand, so that aspect was kind of foreshadowed. I believe She will be her normal strong self when seeing Rand, at least on the inside.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FelixPax View Post
You were on the right train of thought previously....

Laughing, you missed Brandon Sanderson claiming during a book tour that people seen during the Rhuidean scenes (Rand's pov via Mandein) were re-born major characters?
[INDENT]Moiraine, Thom among others.
Quotes please???
__________________
Mera'Daghain M'hael

"Oh, y'all [Theorylanders] are awesome with awesome sauce, but you ask a lot of tricky questions. I had to watch myself with you guys." - Maria

"I need to RAFO more things, I'm not being very Robert Jordan..." - Brandon
  #17  
Old 07-25-2011, 09:47 AM
David Selig David Selig is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 391
David Selig is a glorious beacon of lightDavid Selig is a glorious beacon of lightDavid Selig is a glorious beacon of lightDavid Selig is a glorious beacon of lightDavid Selig is a glorious beacon of lightDavid Selig is a glorious beacon of lightDavid Selig is a glorious beacon of light
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishara View Post
Ugh. Agreed. As if RJ set up the two most powerful women in the world, and then knocked them down to be rescued by, and dependent on, men. Blech. Makes me feel all squicky inside.
Don't forget Morgase too, who found "True Love" only after she lost the power she had. It's an unfortunate trend in Jordan's writing.
  #18  
Old 07-25-2011, 11:23 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is online now
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 15,817
GonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Selig View Post
Don't forget Morgase too, who found "True Love" only after she lost the power she had. It's an unfortunate trend in Jordan's writing.
If you're making a list, you can add (Ama-)Thera to it too. Perhaps Egeanin also belongs on the list.

Perhaps Romanda will be next.
  #19  
Old 07-25-2011, 11:44 AM
Ishara's Avatar
Ishara Ishara is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,424
Ishara has disabled reputation
Send a message via MSN to Ishara
Default

You wish.

Any indication of how the meeting between Cadsuane and Moiraine will go? I feel that Cadsuane was close to a personality breakthrough towards the end of ToM, in no small part because of Tam. Do we think that seeing Moiraine, and her hopefully positive reunion with Rand will take her all the way there, or will she have to fight as hard as Nynaeve to get into her inner circle?
__________________
Courage my friends, it's not too late for a better world. -- Tommy Douglas

Rand: You are an insensitive bastard!!!
Mat: And you ruined another hat!


It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by lightening. -- Calvin

"Gee, I wish I could do magic! Maybe I'll try!" --SDog

Official Vixen of Theoryland and Theoryland Siren

Grain Goddess, the Rood Inverse, the Mad Glomper
  #20  
Old 07-25-2011, 11:58 AM
WinespringBrother's Avatar
WinespringBrother WinespringBrother is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,889
WinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant future
Send a message via AIM to WinespringBrother
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishara View Post
You wish.

Any indication of how the meeting between Cadsuane and Moiraine will go? I feel that Cadsuane was close to a personality breakthrough towards the end of ToM, in no small part because of Tam. Do we think that seeing Moiraine, and her hopefully positive reunion with Rand will take her all the way there, or will she have to fight as hard as Nynaeve to get into her inner circle?
I wouldn't mind if Moiraine made Cads grovel, but I'm not gonna hold my breath on that lol I won't be happy if Moiraine defers to her though

I hope Rand wises up regarding Moiraine, since he basically ignored her for the most part since he ran away after Falme, and didn't really accept her guidance though he did have important reasons for some of it(like becoming Car'a'carn). So it will be interesting what kind of welcome she gets, though I'm assuming it will be a positive one.
__________________
Mera'Daghain M'hael

"Oh, y'all [Theorylanders] are awesome with awesome sauce, but you ask a lot of tricky questions. I had to watch myself with you guys." - Maria

"I need to RAFO more things, I'm not being very Robert Jordan..." - Brandon
 

Tags
character of the week, moiraine, moiraine damodred


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.