art by =saintchase

Theoryland Resources

WoT Interview Search

Search the most comprehensive database of interviews and book signings from Robert Jordan, Brandon Sanderson and the rest of Team Jordan.

Wheel of Time News

An Hour With Harriet

2012-04-30: I had the great pleasure of speaking with Harriet McDougal Rigney about her life. She's an amazing talent and person and it will take you less than an hour to agree.

The Bell Tolls

2012-04-24: Some thoughts I had during JordanCon4 and the upcoming conclusion of "The Wheel of Time."

Theoryland Community

Members: 7653

Logged In (0):

Newest Members:johnroserking, petermorris, johnadanbvv, AndrewHB, jofwu, Salemcat1, Dhakatimesnews, amazingz, Sasooner, Hasib123,

Theoryland Tweets

Forums

Home | Chat | Old Forums(Yuku)


Go Back   Theoryland of the Wheel of Time Forums > THEORYLAND STEDDINGS > Forum Archives > Archived - WoT Discussion Boards > Archived: General Wheel of Time Discussion - 05/2008 - 03/2012
User Name
Password

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-29-2011, 02:53 AM
The Unreasoner's Avatar
The Unreasoner The Unreasoner is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,382
The Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond repute
Default Upcoming theories...

I'm about to post three theories (my first), and I'd like a heads up if there is something obvious that proves any of them wrong so I won't bother.
Essentially:
Verin's perpendicular worlds=Jordan's parallel worlds.

The Dark One doesn't exist (as a consciousness).

The Dark One has already conquered at least one parallel world.

I have (some) evidence for all, and I feel the conclusion of one aids the proof of the others, but is there anything that severely undercuts my theories?
__________________
Exfeuck? Not quite...

Last edited by The Unreasoner; 07-29-2011 at 04:52 AM.
  #2  
Old 07-29-2011, 03:22 AM
The Unreasoner's Avatar
The Unreasoner The Unreasoner is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,382
The Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by papamama14 View Post
i remember here!
and what sort of spambot are you?
__________________
Exfeuck? Not quite...
  #3  
Old 07-29-2011, 04:26 AM
Zombie Sammael's Avatar
Zombie Sammael Zombie Sammael is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Too close to New South Wales
Posts: 3,225
Zombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Skype™ to Zombie Sammael
Default

When you say parallel world, I assume you mean that as distinct from mirror world?
__________________
Sa souvraya niende misain ye

Master of the lightnings, rider on the storm,
wearer of a crown of swords, spinner out of fate.
Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time,
may learn the truth too late.

Light is held before the maw of the infinite void, and all that he is can be seized.

The one who Death has known
  #4  
Old 07-29-2011, 04:51 AM
The Unreasoner's Avatar
The Unreasoner The Unreasoner is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,382
The Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
When you say parallel world, I assume you mean that as distinct from mirror world?
You are a remarkable man, to recognize what I meant, even with typos.

In answer to your question, I do.

**OP edited**

************This Post Edited to note that Zombie may have been responding to a different point, but my answer is still yes*************
__________________
Exfeuck? Not quite...

Last edited by The Unreasoner; 07-29-2011 at 05:03 AM.
  #5  
Old 07-29-2011, 05:18 AM
Zombie Sammael's Avatar
Zombie Sammael Zombie Sammael is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Too close to New South Wales
Posts: 3,225
Zombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Skype™ to Zombie Sammael
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unreasoner View Post
You are a remarkable man, to recognize what I meant, even with typos.

In answer to your question, I do.

**OP edited**

************This Post Edited to note that Zombie may have been responding to a different point, but my answer is still yes*************
It's just that the theories wouldn't make sense off the bat if you were referring to Mirror Worlds. I think you should post them, and see what happens. I find the one about the DO already having conquered another world particularly interesting, as it may spark some lively debate about what he intends to do when/if he does get out, among other things.
__________________
Sa souvraya niende misain ye

Master of the lightnings, rider on the storm,
wearer of a crown of swords, spinner out of fate.
Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time,
may learn the truth too late.

Light is held before the maw of the infinite void, and all that he is can be seized.

The one who Death has known
  #6  
Old 07-29-2011, 10:27 AM
WinespringBrother's Avatar
WinespringBrother WinespringBrother is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,889
WinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant future
Send a message via AIM to WinespringBrother
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unreasoner View Post
I'm about to post three theories (my first), and I'd like a heads up if there is something obvious that proves any of them wrong so I won't bother.
Essentially:
Verin's perpendicular worlds=Jordan's parallel worlds.

The Dark One doesn't exist (as a consciousness).

The Dark One has already conquered at least one parallel world.

I have (some) evidence for all, and I feel the conclusion of one aids the proof of the others, but is there anything that severely undercuts my theories?
1. RJ has been on record as saying that perpendicular worlds are not the same as parallel worlds.

2. That one sounds interesting, though it does contradict the BWB and would be a flaky way to wind up the series.

3. By conquered, do you mean like the world where Rand, Loial and Hurin visited, with the statue at Talidar showing the Trolloc victory, or as in the Dark One breaking out and destroying the Pattern? If the latter, that would contradict what Verin told Egwene, though I guess that is possible.
__________________
Mera'Daghain M'hael

"Oh, y'all [Theorylanders] are awesome with awesome sauce, but you ask a lot of tricky questions. I had to watch myself with you guys." - Maria

"I need to RAFO more things, I'm not being very Robert Jordan..." - Brandon
  #7  
Old 07-29-2011, 11:33 AM
Zombie Sammael's Avatar
Zombie Sammael Zombie Sammael is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Too close to New South Wales
Posts: 3,225
Zombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Skype™ to Zombie Sammael
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WinespringBrother View Post
3. By conquered, do you mean like the world where Rand, Loial and Hurin visited, with the statue at Talidar showing the Trolloc victory, or as in the Dark One breaking out and destroying the Pattern? If the latter, that would contradict what Verin told Egwene, though I guess that is possible.
Interesting that this can happen from merely an idea, but as I checked, Mr Unreasoner said specifically parallel world as opposed to mirror world. The world Rand, Loial and Hurin visited was certainly a mirror world, and we know for a fact that if he got out in a mirror world he'd be out in all of them. The idea that he may already have managed to get his claws into a parallel world, i.e. a world like Finnland or Ogierland, is more interesting.
__________________
Sa souvraya niende misain ye

Master of the lightnings, rider on the storm,
wearer of a crown of swords, spinner out of fate.
Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time,
may learn the truth too late.

Light is held before the maw of the infinite void, and all that he is can be seized.

The one who Death has known
  #8  
Old 07-29-2011, 12:10 PM
The Unreasoner's Avatar
The Unreasoner The Unreasoner is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,382
The Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WinespringBrother View Post
1. RJ has been on record as saying that perpendicular worlds are not the same as parallel worlds.
Can you point me in the direction of a quote? I'd like to know if this theory can be retooled or if it was DOA

Quote:
2. That one sounds interesting, though it does contradict the BWB and would be a flaky way to wind up the series.
Lots of things contradict the BWB, and as for the rest...I'm not denying it an agency on par with the Wheel, in fact my last theory sort of demands it, or else a phenomenal effort on the part of some hypothetical selfless Forsaken.
Quote:
3. By conquered, do you mean like the world where Rand, Loial and Hurin visited, with the statue at Talidar showing the Trolloc victory, or as in the Dark One breaking out and destroying the Pattern? If the latter, that would contradict what Verin told Egwene, though I guess that is possible.
I am unsure that we have any conclusive evidence that the Dark One breaking completely free is synonymous with the destruction of the Pattern, but my theory primarily deals with a world where the Dark One has won a permanent lesser victory.
__________________
Exfeuck? Not quite...
  #9  
Old 07-29-2011, 01:16 PM
Zombie Sammael's Avatar
Zombie Sammael Zombie Sammael is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Too close to New South Wales
Posts: 3,225
Zombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Skype™ to Zombie Sammael
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unreasoner View Post
Can you point me in the direction of a quote? I'd like to know if this theory can be retooled or if it was DOA
WH may be referring to this:

Quote:
Tamyrlin: This is in reference to a previous question I asked you about Parallel Worlds and Mirror Worlds, today I believe, and you mentioned they are different. And the question I had about Portal Stones was, do Portal Stones lead to Parallel Worlds, Mirror Worlds, or both?
Jordan: They lead to Mirror Worlds, the Portal Stones can take you to Mirror Worlds, not to Parallels, which are separate.
BTW you ought to be able to use the interview database yourself by now. :-P
__________________
Sa souvraya niende misain ye

Master of the lightnings, rider on the storm,
wearer of a crown of swords, spinner out of fate.
Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time,
may learn the truth too late.

Light is held before the maw of the infinite void, and all that he is can be seized.

The one who Death has known
  #10  
Old 07-29-2011, 01:24 PM
The Unreasoner's Avatar
The Unreasoner The Unreasoner is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,382
The Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
WH may be referring to this:



BTW you ought to be able to use the interview database yourself by now. :-P
I use that quote to argue my points. I know of no quote in the database that even mentions perpendicular worlds.

And I know how to use the database. WSB may know of a quote that I failed to find though.
__________________
Exfeuck? Not quite...
  #11  
Old 07-29-2011, 01:30 PM
WinespringBrother's Avatar
WinespringBrother WinespringBrother is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,889
WinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant future
Send a message via AIM to WinespringBrother
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unreasoner View Post
Can you point me in the direction of a quote? I'd like to know if this theory can be retooled or if it was DOA.
I was actually thinking of this quote, which implies but does not state unequivocally that they are different: (and this should be in the Q&A database somewhere, I was lazy and googled it and copied/pasted from 13th Depository (http://13depository.blogspot.com/sea...at%20RJ%20Said)

Q43: Do the Finns inhabit a perpendicular world?

RJ: No, it is a parallel world.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unreasoner View Post
I am unsure that we have any conclusive evidence that the Dark One breaking completely free is synonymous with the destruction of the Pattern, but my theory primarily deals with a world where the Dark One has won a permanent lesser victory.
Sounds like an interesting theory-I'd like to see this, since I've never noticed anything that would imply the Dark One did such a thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
WH may be referring to this:



BTW you ought to be able to use the interview database yourself by now. :-P
People sometimes confuse me with JWB, but rarely WH lol
__________________
Mera'Daghain M'hael

"Oh, y'all [Theorylanders] are awesome with awesome sauce, but you ask a lot of tricky questions. I had to watch myself with you guys." - Maria

"I need to RAFO more things, I'm not being very Robert Jordan..." - Brandon
  #12  
Old 07-29-2011, 01:33 PM
Zombie Sammael's Avatar
Zombie Sammael Zombie Sammael is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Too close to New South Wales
Posts: 3,225
Zombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Skype™ to Zombie Sammael
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WinespringBrother View Post
I was actually thinking of this quote, which implies but does not state unequivocally that they are different: (and this should be in the Q&A database somewhere, I was lazy and googled it and copied/pasted from 13th Depository (http://13depository.blogspot.com/sea...at%20RJ%20Said)

Q43: Do the Finns inhabit a perpendicular world?

RJ: No, it is a parallel world.




Sounds like an interesting theory-I'd like to see this, since I've never noticed anything that would imply the Dark One did such a thing.



People sometimes confuse me with JWB, but rarely WH lol
Sorry, you both have names that start with W and I'm excessively lazy. Really sorry!
__________________
Sa souvraya niende misain ye

Master of the lightnings, rider on the storm,
wearer of a crown of swords, spinner out of fate.
Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time,
may learn the truth too late.

Light is held before the maw of the infinite void, and all that he is can be seized.

The one who Death has known
  #13  
Old 07-29-2011, 02:29 PM
The Unreasoner's Avatar
The Unreasoner The Unreasoner is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,382
The Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WinespringBrother View Post
I was actually thinking of this quote, which implies but does not state unequivocally that they are different: (and this should be in the Q&A database somewhere, I was lazy and googled it and copied/pasted from 13th Depository
It's not in the database, which is odd, because the rest of your questions are there (the bells and ta'veren and whatnot). I guess Terez cut that one out. Can't imagine why. had to dig into yuku to confirm.

I'm wondering how to interpret this quote.
__________________
Exfeuck? Not quite...
  #14  
Old 07-29-2011, 06:59 PM
Marie Curie 7's Avatar
Marie Curie 7 Marie Curie 7 is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,235
Marie Curie 7 has a reputation beyond reputeMarie Curie 7 has a reputation beyond reputeMarie Curie 7 has a reputation beyond reputeMarie Curie 7 has a reputation beyond reputeMarie Curie 7 has a reputation beyond reputeMarie Curie 7 has a reputation beyond reputeMarie Curie 7 has a reputation beyond reputeMarie Curie 7 has a reputation beyond reputeMarie Curie 7 has a reputation beyond reputeMarie Curie 7 has a reputation beyond reputeMarie Curie 7 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unreasoner View Post
It's not in the database, which is odd, because the rest of your questions are there (the bells and ta'veren and whatnot). I guess Terez cut that one out. Can't imagine why. had to dig into yuku to confirm.
I'm sure it wasn't cut on purpose. It was probably just a copy/paste error. And I fixed it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unreasoner View Post
The Dark One doesn't exist (as a consciousness).
Who was it who was talking to Demandred in the LOC Prologue, then?

Anyway, not only does your idea contradict the BWB, as WSB mentioned, it seems to me that it contradicts most of what RJ said about the Dark One. Just one example:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ
TOR Questions of the Week, February 2005-July 2005

Week 9 Question: We've read in the Forsaken's points of view that channeling in the Pit of Doom would have some...unpleasant...effects. Is this related to the nature of the opposition of the One Power to the True Power or is it the Dark One consciously acting against the channeler? If so, why should the Dark One care?

Robert Jordan Answers: It is a matter of the Dark One consciously acting, though interactions between the One Power and him, the source of the True Power, can be unpredictable. The Dark One is not pleasant. He is also highly distrustful. He…dislikes…things that happen outside his control or not at his order. Call him the ur-control freak. Combine these two facts, and anyone channeling in the Pit of Doom without permission can expect swift punishment on the assumption that failure to ask permission means you intend to do something he won't like. It isn't that he believes anyone can harm him, just that he is in charge, and your failure to ask permission, your presumed intention to do something he wouldn't like, means that your faithfulness quotient has just suffered a severe downturn. Myself, I'd sell you short in a skinny minute.
If the Dark One doesn't exist as a consciousness, then why does RJ speak of him 'consciously acting'?


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unreasoner
The Dark One has already conquered at least one parallel world.
This seems to be at least partially ruled out by what the Ogier think about these things, if by that statement you mean that the Dark One is free in that parallel world:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ
TITLE: Knife of Dreams
CHAPTER: 19 - Vows

"The War of the Hundred Years was a human affair, and none of ours. The Shadow is our affair. When it is the Shadow that must be fought, our axes have always grown long handles. Perhaps in a year, or five, or ten, we will open the Book of Translation, but if we do it now, we cannot run away with any real hope of safety. Tarmon Gai’don is coming, and on that hangs the fate not only of this world, but of any world we might flee to. When fire threatens the trees, we do not run away and hope that the flames will not follow us. We fight. Now the Shadow is coming like wildfire, and we dare not run from it." Something was moving among the trees, all along the line he could see. A herd of cattle? A very big herd, if so.
Couple that with Verin's comments about the Pattern and the Dark One, and it seems unlikely that the Dark One is free anywhere:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ
TITLE: Dragon Reborn
CHAPTER: 21 - A World of Dreams

"Very good. But the Pattern may be even more complex than that, child. The Wheel weaves our lives to make the Pattern of an Age, but the Ages themselves are woven into the Age Lace, the Great Pattern. Who can know if this is even the tenth part of the weaving, though? Some in the Age of Legends apparently believe that there were still other worlds – even harder to reach than the worlds of the Portal Stones, if that can be believed – lying like this." She drew more lines, cross-hatching the first set. For a moment she stared at them. "The warp and the woof of the weave. Perhaps the Wheel of Time weaves a still greater Pattern from worlds." Straightening, she dusted her hands. "Well, that is neither here nor there. In all of these worlds, whatever their other variations, a few things are constant. One is that the Dark One is imprisoned in all of them."

In spite of herself, Egwene stepped closer to peer at the lines Verin had drawn. "In all of them? How can that be? Are you saying there is a Father of Lies for each world?" The thought of so many Dark Ones made her shiver.

"No, child. There is one Creator, who exists everywhere at once for all of these worlds. In the same way, there is only one Dark One, who also exists in all of these worlds at once. If he is freed from the prison the Creator made in one world, he is freed on all. So long as he is kept prisoner in one, he remains imprisoned on all."
Notice here that Verin is talking about all the worlds, the parallel ones and perpendicular ones.
  #15  
Old 07-29-2011, 07:23 PM
The Unreasoner's Avatar
The Unreasoner The Unreasoner is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,382
The Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marie Curie 7 View Post
I'm sure it wasn't cut on purpose. It was probably just a copy/paste error. And I fixed it.
Many thanks. I thought maybe it was seen as an unimportant quote, but that makes more sense.
Quote:
Who was it who was talking to Demandred in the LOC Prologue, then?
My theory basically says madness.
Quote:
Anyway, not only does your idea contradict the BWB, as WSB mentioned, it seems to me that it contradicts most of what RJ said about the Dark One. Just one example...

If the Dark One doesn't exist as a consciousness, then why does RJ speak of him 'consciously acting'?
Again, I'm not denying it an agency on par with the Wheel. I don't know why RJ said what he did.
Quote:
This seems to be at least partially ruled out by what the Ogier think about these things, if by that statement you mean that the Dark One is free in that parallel world...

Couple that with Verin's comments about the Pattern and the Dark One, and it seems unlikely that the Dark One is free anywhere...
Again, my theory primarily deals with a world where the Dark One has won a permanent lesser victory. He is not free. An open Bore, no patch, and none alive to make one. Or widen the Bore further.
Quote:
Notice here that Verin is talking about all the worlds, the parallel ones and perpendicular ones.
I rely this very quote quite heavily for all of these theories.

One or two may end up wrong. Maybe even all three. But I see evidence, so I'll finish putting it together. I did need some potential arguments that I am required to knock down, and Marie Curie did a great job. WSB's point is critical. And I like WSB's style with one of his theories.

Going to finish it up now...
__________________
Exfeuck? Not quite...
  #16  
Old 07-31-2011, 07:47 PM
Tamyrlin Tamyrlin is offline
Lord of the Board
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,020
Tamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Tamyrlin
Default Regarding the confusion

WSB - he is arguing that Verin uses the word "parallel" when describing Mirror Worlds and then mentions worlds that run perpendicular to the wheel. While Perpendicular to me suggests something completely other than a Parallel World, technically no quote denies Verin's perpendicular worlds from being "Parallel Worlds".

In essence it would be:

Verin's Parallel = Jordan's Mirror Worlds (this is factual)
Verin's Perpendicular = Jordan's Parallel Worlds (this is the theory)

Unreasoner - as to proof that weighs against, Egwene speaks about peeking into dreams through the GOI regarding Perpendicular Worlds and speaks of how they are so far from reality. And we are told that Ogier come from a Parallel World. The fact that they fit within the reality of Randland, and even the Finn world is not so different that it cannot be traversed and understood suggest to me that Perpendicular worlds are a type of Mirror World (within that Layer of reality) instead of mixing the concepts of reality and un-reality. And such will be my case against your theory, but you already knew that. And no I don't feel like finding the Egwene quote atm.
  #17  
Old 07-31-2011, 08:07 PM
Zombie Sammael's Avatar
Zombie Sammael Zombie Sammael is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Too close to New South Wales
Posts: 3,225
Zombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond reputeZombie Sammael has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Skype™ to Zombie Sammael
Default

Quote:
TITLE: Dragon Reborn
CHAPTER: 21 - A World of Dreams

"Very good. But the Pattern may be even more complex than that, child. The Wheel weaves our lives to make the Pattern of an Age, but the Ages themselves are woven into the Age Lace, the Great Pattern. Who can know if this is even the tenth part of the weaving, though? Some in the Age of Legends apparently believe that there were still other worlds – even harder to reach than the worlds of the Portal Stones, if that can be believed – lying like this." She drew more lines, cross-hatching the first set. For a moment she stared at them. "The warp and the woof of the weave. Perhaps the Wheel of Time weaves a still greater Pattern from worlds." Straightening, she dusted her hands. "Well, that is neither here nor there. In all of these worlds, whatever their other variations, a few things are constant. One is that the Dark One is imprisoned in all of them."

In spite of herself, Egwene stepped closer to peer at the lines Verin had drawn. "In all of them? How can that be? Are you saying there is a Father of Lies for each world?" The thought of so many Dark Ones made her shiver.

"No, child. There is one Creator, who exists everywhere at once for all of these worlds. In the same way, there is only one Dark One, who also exists in all of these worlds at once. If he is freed from the prison the Creator made in one world, he is freed on all. So long as he is kept prisoner in one, he remains imprisoned on all."
It seems to me here that Verin - having mentioned portal stones - is talking specifically about mirror worlds. The idea that the DO could be free in at least one parallel world - i.e. the world of the Finn, Ogier, etc - to me seems more plausible. The notion that he's won a permanent lesser victory in at least one mirror world is not a theory, it's a fact directly confirmed by TGH and the time Rand, Loial, Hurin and Lanfear spent in a mirror world which had been overrun by Trollocs.

I am becoming slightly confused by all the talk of perpendicular worlds. Are they mirror worlds or parallel worlds?
__________________
Sa souvraya niende misain ye

Master of the lightnings, rider on the storm,
wearer of a crown of swords, spinner out of fate.
Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time,
may learn the truth too late.

Light is held before the maw of the infinite void, and all that he is can be seized.

The one who Death has known
  #18  
Old 07-31-2011, 08:13 PM
The Unreasoner's Avatar
The Unreasoner The Unreasoner is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,382
The Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
I am becoming slightly confused by all the talk of perpendicular worlds. Are they mirror worlds or parallel worlds?
I am basically arguing that they don't exist. But parallel worlds more than mirrors, though each parallel could have its own mirrors.

@Tamyrlin:
I had the quote, LoC-14
Quote:
The great spangled ocean of darkness swirled around her, seeming to move while she stood still. A fish at home in that ocean, she swam confidently, without really needing to think about it any more than the fish did. Those flickering lights were dreams, all the dreams of all the people of the world. Of all worlds, places that were not quite the world she knew, worlds nothing like it at all. Verin Sedai first told her of those, the Wise Ones affirmed it was so, and she herself had glimpsed things, peeking in, that she simply could not credit, not even in a dream. Not nightmares—those always seemed washed in red, or blue, or a murky gray like deep shadows—but filled with impossible things. Better to avoid them; clearly she did not belong in those worlds. Peering into such a dream was like suddenly being surrounded by broken mirrors, everything whirling and no way to tell up from down. It made her want to empty her stomach, and if she did not have one here, she would again on stepping back into her body. Sicking up was no way to wake yourself.
It seems that Finnland level oddities would be consistent with this quote.
__________________
Exfeuck? Not quite...
  #19  
Old 07-31-2011, 11:19 PM
Tamyrlin Tamyrlin is offline
Lord of the Board
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,020
Tamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond reputeTamyrlin has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Tamyrlin
Default That's the one

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unreasoner View Post
It seems that Finnland level oddities would be consistent with this quote.
Quote:
Verin Sedai first told her of those, the Wise Ones affirmed it was so, and she herself had glimpsed things, peeking in, that she simply could not credit, not even in a dream. Not nightmares—those always seemed washed in red, or blue, or a murky gray like deep shadows—but filled with impossible things. Better to avoid them; clearly she did not belong in those worlds. Peering into such a dream was like suddenly being surrounded by broken mirrors, everything whirling and no way to tell up from down.
  • Saw things she could not credit even in a dream.
  • Filled with impossible things.
  • Like being surrounded by broken mirrors.
  • No way to tell up from down.

I don't think that describes the finnland experiences we've had. As Egwene suggests, I think visiting such would cause her to throw up, if she could even survive in such a world because her brain wouldn't be able to make sense of the experience. Finnland is odd, but not incomprehensible.

But I can agree that this Egwene quote isn't definitive.
  #20  
Old 08-01-2011, 12:09 AM
The Unreasoner's Avatar
The Unreasoner The Unreasoner is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,382
The Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond reputeThe Unreasoner has a reputation beyond repute
Default

An interesting quote from ToM...
Quote:
It had been a long walk before. Or had it been a short one? Time blended here. It seemed that they ran for many hours, yet it also felt like moments.
And then the doorway was in front of them, appearing like a striking adder. It had not been there a moment before. The rim of the opening was intricately carved wood, with an impossible pattern of weaving vines that seemed to double back on one another and make no sense. All three pulled to a halt. "Mirrors," Noal said. "I've seen it before. That's how they do it, obscuring things with mirrors." He sounded unnerved. Where did one hide mirrors in a bloody straight tunnel?
The mirrors 'seen' by Noal and Egwene may be a sort of confabulation, their mind interpreting the unusual physical phenomena incorrectly, or with the laws of Randland. There is evidence that the variety of the worlds fall along a spectrum, Finnland being more unusual than Ogierland (as viewed by Randlanders), and other worlds may be more unusual still.

*******Edited to add*******
I realize it's not a one-to-one comparison, but Egwene's mind may have been incapable of coming up with the words to describe whatever bizarre phenomena she encountered. I find that the word 'mirrors' is a telling insight into the authors' thought processes. The mind consistently assigns a (wrong) explanation to optical illusions.

Does anyone know how firm the five paragraph thing is? I make my case for the first theory, such as it is, in three (discounting quotes), but I see theories on the order of twenty paragraphs.
__________________
Exfeuck? Not quite...

Last edited by The Unreasoner; 08-01-2011 at 06:32 AM.
 

Tags
finn, moridin, rand, stone, world


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.