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  #1  
Old 02-06-2012, 04:01 PM
Cortar Cortar is offline
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Default Gateway Butchery and Conspicuous Darkfriends

How do the Forsaken prevent themselves from getting killed when a fellow Forsaken opens a gateway to his hidey-hole?

Especially when its a male travelling to a female's or vice-versa.
  #2  
Old 02-06-2012, 04:26 PM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
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Originally Posted by Cortar View Post
How do the Forsaken prevent themselves from getting killed when a fellow Forsaken opens a gateway to his hidey-hole?
They go "Ting!":
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoD, Chapter 12, New Alliances
Abruptly a vertical slash of silver appeared at the far end of the room, bright against the tapestries hanging between the heavy gilded mirrors, and a crystalline chime rang loud. Her eyebrows rose in surprise. Someone remembered the courtesies of a more civilized Age, it seemed. Standing, she forced the plain band of gold down against the ruby ring on her smallest finger and embraced saidar through it before channeling the web that would sound an answering chime for whoever wanted to open a gateway. The angreal did not offer much, yet anyone who thought they knew her strength would find a shock.
Simple, easy, and I do not quite know why this would be safe. It seems to me the sound signals would also require gateways to be send to the other party.
Still, based on the lack of worry from the Forsaken, I suspect that it is indeed a lot safer than it seems.
  #3  
Old 02-06-2012, 04:31 PM
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I remember this now, but nothing like this was used in the earlier books, specifically when Sam and Gran met in LoC.

Also wouldn't that slash of light still be dangerous?



One more question that might be answerable: I know you have to know the place you are AT to make a gateway, but how much of the place you are going do you have to know? How much control do channellers have in making gateways at these places? I mean, if I knew about a town on a map and I tried to make a gateway there, but I have never seen it or been there, what prevents me from opening a gateway underground or 100 ft above ground level?
  #4  
Old 02-06-2012, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
They go "Ting!":
Simple, easy, and I do not quite know why this would be safe. It seems to me the sound signals would also require gateways to be send to the other party.
Still, based on the lack of worry from the Forsaken, I suspect that it is indeed a lot safer than it seems.
I think that is more about privacy than it is about safety.
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BRANDON SANDERSON (4 JANUARY 2011)
Back to reading The Eye of the World, all. Posts to follow. I'll try to keep it at a steady stream, not a flood.

BRANDON SANDERSON
WoT Easter Egg: there's an easily overlooked line in the prologue of The Eye of the World which gives huge foreshadowing of things Rand can do in Towers of Midnight.


TEREZ
I always thought the fact that Lews Therin could sense that there were no people around for miles was interesting.


BRANDON SANDERSON
I should have guessed that you'd be the only one who would pick out the right line, Terez.


BRANDON SANDERSON
The Easter egg in the prologue has to do with Lews Therin sensing the lack of people around him for miles and miles.


BRANDON SANDERSON (5 JANUARY)
Regarding yesterday's Easter Egg, Maria mentions RJ was preparing a blog post on the concept.


BRANDON SANDERSON
For those who missed it, it has to do with Lews Therin sensing nobody was nearby when he made Dragonmount.


BRANDON SANDERSON
And before you ask, no, I can't say more. Sorry. Suffice it to say that what is in the books stands as enough of an answer, for now.


TEREZ
My original(ish) post on the ability to sense for people: http://bit.ly/safegates in '06. I was a noob(ish) then.


BRANDON SANDERSON

Interesting theory. What do you think of it now?

TEREZ
I think it still holds up (despite a few details I missed), but I think it's not what you were getting at.
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  #5  
Old 02-06-2012, 05:37 PM
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Can you point out where Rand uses this in ToM? I can't remember a single instance.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:40 PM
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I figured he was doing a more general reference to the 'one with the land' thing.
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  #7  
Old 02-06-2012, 07:02 PM
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Can you point out where Rand uses this in ToM? I can't remember a single instance.
While it's not exercising his "soul proximity sensor", it could play into how he recognizes Lanfear's soul in a new body (and possibly pre-reintegration recognizing of Moridin?). And depending on your interpretation of certain scenes, his detecting souls that have sworn to the Dark One (although this is really something any Aes Sedai can do, differing only in degree as they can only sense the worst of the worst Darkfriends).
  #8  
Old 02-06-2012, 11:37 PM
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his detecting souls that have sworn to the Dark One (although this is really something any Aes Sedai can do, differing only in degree as they can only sense the worst of the worst Darkfriends).
I know Moiraine did something with Fain but I thought AS could only sense Shadowspawn, not DF's?
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  #9  
Old 02-07-2012, 12:13 AM
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I know Moiraine did something with Fain but I thought AS could only sense Shadowspawn, not DF's?
I believe that depends on how far gone they are.

Which makes a certain sense, when you think about it. Rand is a pure beast among channelers, capable of shocking trained Asha'man into bafflement with a siege-destroying onslaught.

With powers on that level, his sense for the dark side is probably far more refined and more deeply-reaching than any Aes Sedai living today.
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  #10  
Old 02-07-2012, 12:41 AM
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I believe that depends on how far gone they are.
Wouldn't they then have detected at least one BA in that manner before they were unearthed by conventional means?
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  #11  
Old 02-07-2012, 12:58 AM
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Wouldn't they then have detected at least one BA in that manner before they were unearthed by conventional means?
Unlikely, because most people, even the Black Ajah, don't possess that depth of evil, though some such as the Forsaken possess a greater capacity for evil acts.

Quote:
"No Trolloc can come within a quarter of a mile without Lan knowing it, feeling the evil of it." ~ TEoTW, Ch16
A murder here and there, a few plots to the greater glory of the DO. Does the evil of anyone who is not a Forsaken even remotely compare to the evil of savage beasts like Trollocs or vile rapaciousness of Fades?

The ones who are that overtly evil don't survive long, because they are generally seen for Darkfriends and dealt with as a threat to the community at large.

Still, they possess some of the same brand of evil to a degree, and if that protection + detection is granted by the One Power, then it stands to reason that a greater level of protection and detection might also be possessed by someone like Rand, whose might exceeds any living channeler.
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  #12  
Old 02-07-2012, 02:26 AM
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Unlikely, because most people, even the Black Ajah, don't possess that depth of evil, though some such as the Forsaken possess a greater capacity for evil acts.
To my mind the Forsaken then would leap out in that regard. All the atrocities you would think would be enough to warrant that distinction.
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  #13  
Old 02-07-2012, 02:56 AM
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To my mind the Forsaken then would leap out in that regard. All the atrocities you would think would be enough to warrant that distinction.
Which is why their very presence is enough to cast a pall of nightmare over a city... and be sensed easily without the aid of a warder bond. They might not stick out for it, but if their evil resonates so strongly for the likely reason - their OP powers - then it makes sense that they aren't immediately visible to anyone they cross paths with while in disguise.
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Old 02-07-2012, 03:17 AM
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I figured he was doing a more general reference to the 'one with the land' thing.
So this is an ability only LTT possesses? I actually thought it was a weave or a Talent.
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Old 02-07-2012, 08:26 AM
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I believe that depends on how far gone they are.

Which makes a certain sense, when you think about it. Rand is a pure beast among channelers, capable of shocking trained Asha'man into bafflement with a siege-destroying onslaught.

With powers on that level, his sense for the dark side is probably far more refined and more deeply-reaching than any Aes Sedai living today.
In KoD, Rand sensed the mass of trollocs at the same time Cadsuane did. That might be due to the strength in the OP, or due to a masking of the shadowspawn horde being dropped.

But in EotW, Rand sensed the shadowspawn before Lan or Moiraine did. And he didn't know much at that point. So I wouldn't say say his senses are more refined but with Rand there are so many sides to it that anything's possible.
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Old 02-07-2012, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by eht slat meit View Post
Which is why their very presence is enough to cast a pall of nightmare over a city... and be sensed easily without the aid of a warder bond. They might not stick out for it, but if their evil resonates so strongly for the likely reason - their OP powers - then it makes sense that they aren't immediately visible to anyone they cross paths with while in disguise.
Moving off the forsaken your premise would require that no one in the history of the BA has ever been far gone enough to sense. I get the point you made earlier but that still seems a bit far fetched to me.
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Last edited by suttree; 02-07-2012 at 12:34 PM.
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Old 02-07-2012, 12:08 PM
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No one in the WT seems to have sensed Mesaana either. Or Lanfear, when that one happened to visit there.

Then again, no AS ever seems to have gotten the idea of employing a Sniffer in order to clean out their ranks, so I guess that a certain level of stupidity has to be acknowledged. Verin recognised Hurin for what he was immediately, suggesting that the BA had been aware of that particular danger to them.
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Old 02-07-2012, 12:17 PM
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No one in the WT seems to have sensed Mesaana either. Or Lanfear, when that one happened to visit there.

Then again, no AS ever seems to have gotten the idea of employing a Sniffer in order to clean out their ranks, so I guess that a certain level of stupidity has to be acknowledged. Verin recognised Hurin for what he was immediately, suggesting that the BA had been aware of that particular danger to them.
It suggests nothing of the sort. All it suggests is Verin knew what a Sniffer was. We know of no requirement that all BA are required to share information; in fact the opposite appears to be true in all workings of the Shadow. Nor is there any evidence that, in fact, knowledge of sniffers was common in the Tower. In fact, from the fact that a mass Red Ajah investigation of Borderlanders for men who could channel has not taken place, we can infer that knowledge of sniffers was not even common amongst AS.
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  #19  
Old 02-07-2012, 12:30 PM
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I know Moiraine did something with Fain but I thought AS could only sense Shadowspawn, not DF's?
Since it was danced around a bit and one should support one's own statements, the quote I had in mind (TDR, Chapter 34):

Quote:
Perrin shifted his feet uneasily; there was a cold promise in her voice. "You told me once that you could sense a Darkfriend, one who was far gone into the Shadow, at least. Lan, too. Have you sensed anything like that here?"
..."Very few humans are so far gone as that, Perrin, even among the worst Darkfriends."
To be honest, I didn't originally provide a citation because I didn't think it was a controversial or obscure statement :-). As for why the Black Ajah has gone undetected, Ishamael has been around fairly regularly since its inception. Perhaps there's some mojo he teaches them to avoid detection (although since none of them were familiar with inverted weaves, this may present difficulty). Alternately, the Black Ajah doesn't really attract zealous converts. They are all selfish, not Shadowy. They're acting in their own interests, not in those of the Dark One. But then, why would the Forsaken be detectable, since their psyche is similar? Mainly because they actually have a direct link to the Dark One? Alternately, early-book-itis (although I do think I go there too quickly sometimes).
  #20  
Old 02-07-2012, 12:33 PM
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Then again, no AS ever seems to have gotten the idea of employing a Sniffer in order to clean out their ranks, so I guess that a certain level of stupidity has to be acknowledged. Verin recognised Hurin for what he was immediately, suggesting that the BA had been aware of that particular danger to them.
Employing Sniffers seems problematic in dealing with, say, the Red Ajah.
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