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  #1  
Old 03-04-2012, 11:30 PM
final death final death is offline
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Default Elayne The role she plays and why she just won't die.

I would appricate it if everyone keeps this thread civil and does not mention The Amrylin Seat The Watcher of Lost Seals, The Flame of Tar Valon. This Thread is about Elayne.

I think Elayne plays the role... oh screw it! Elaynes complete lack of a self preservation instinct, her lack of a conscience, and her lack of intelligence combined with her massive sense of entitlement, Massively inflated ego, and her incredibly manipulative nature make her a character i could never like. I have know a few people like her and in general I hate them. If she has a good point its that she holds Birgitte bond. I would not wish her on anyone. Rand at his darkest was never as bad as Elayne. I have wanted her to die again and again. Yet the worst that has happened to her was being stabbed by that Hanlon fellow which i might add she is healed from before anything unseemly happens. At this point I would be happy having her 13X13ed. I would feel bad for rand yet in another way it would be good for him because she is terrible for him. For that matter she would be terrible for anyone. I would also feel bad for Bridgette but she is tough she should be able to get through it. On the bright side though from avi's visit through the glass columns, while tragic, there was a glimmer of hope. Elayne isn't on the throne in 2 generations, which means a quiet off screen death somewhere. I know she deserves much worse unfortunately we will probably have to just settle with that.
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Old 03-04-2012, 11:47 PM
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Who is Bridgette?
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Old 03-04-2012, 11:58 PM
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It's how i pronounce Birgitte.
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Old 03-05-2012, 04:37 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
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Look on the bright side: according to all indications, the first girlfriend the Dragon had in his previous life was even worse. So there's a definite improvement, and in a couple of more turns, he might only date nice and sensible girls.
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Old 03-05-2012, 07:07 AM
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Look on the bright side: according to all indications, the first girlfriend the Dragon had in his previous life was even worse. So there's a definite improvement, and in a couple of more turns, he might only date nice and sensible girls.
You're discounting the Gay Dragon theory, then?
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Old 03-05-2012, 07:23 AM
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You're discounting the Gay Dragon theory, then?
If that had even a shred of evidence, then Terez would be all over it.
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Old 03-05-2012, 08:03 AM
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If that had even a shred of evidence, then Terez would be all over it.
There's plenty of evidence for it. Rand's "flaming sword" made of Saidin? Countless hours spent "working the sword forms" with Lan? Whilst topless, and admiring Lan's well-muscled, scarred, rugged frame? Plus, Rand only feels alive when he "touches" something male.
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Old 03-05-2012, 10:20 AM
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I dont get the Elayne hatred. For one, its important to understand her perspective. She's been taught her entire life that to be a proper Queen of Andor she must lead from the front...remember the vignette about the Queen who took her own banner and rode into the enemy army to rally her troops on the field? That's the model she's been given as appropriate to emulate.

Yeah, she lives dangerously but she's also very intelligent, quick to fix mistakes and she has many great qualities of a queen. She demonstrates empathy towards her subjects, she is stern when she needs to be and she successfully saved Andor from a brutal civil war through her political and military machinations.

Seriously, you're completely offbase with ripping Elayne.

Also, the glass columns that Avi sees is a possible future...not a guarantee. Odds are that future wont happen now that Avi has seen it and she will likely intercede to prvent it from happening.
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Old 03-05-2012, 10:36 AM
David Selig David Selig is offline
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OP - don't hold back, tell us how you really feel.

The male main characters are just as reckless as the Supergirls, if not more, yet don't get 1/10 of the fan bashing for it that the girls get. I don't understand that.
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  #10  
Old 03-05-2012, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by David Selig View Post
OP - don't hold back, tell us how you really feel.

The male main characters are just as reckless as the Supergirls, if not more, yet don't get 1/10 of the fan bashing for it that the girls get. I don't understand that.
Its their mindset

Perrin, the Dragon Reborn is arrogant and cold but thats because he has everyone trying to kill him and steal power and influence from him. Also he is rabidly insane.

Matt is reckless but with a good heart. He doesn't believe he has a divine right to be RULER OF EVERYONE unlike Egwene and Elayne.

I don't know who else you could be referring to.
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  #11  
Old 03-05-2012, 05:48 PM
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*facepalm*

Or as the rest of us view it as 3 people, not two...

Perrin has received his share of bashing.

Edit for afterthought: And how many pages did the 'I hate Gareth Bryne' thread get up to?
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  #12  
Old 03-05-2012, 06:52 PM
Great Lord of the Dark Great Lord of the Dark is offline
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Default Elayne is tops

Unlike the Two Rivers women and most Aes Sedai, Elayne has not grown up thinking men need to be managed. Her first words to Rand when she tells him her feelings, is that he is to be himself and she will accept him as he is, and she will be herself and he will ahve to accept that.

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Old 03-05-2012, 06:54 PM
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I dont get the Elayne hatred. For one, its important to understand her perspective. She's been taught her entire life that to be a proper Queen of Andor she must lead from the front...remember the vignette about the Queen who took her own banner and rode into the enemy army to rally her troops on the field? That's the model she's been given as appropriate to emulate.

Yeah, she lives dangerously but she's also very intelligent, quick to fix mistakes and she has many great qualities of a queen. She demonstrates empathy towards her subjects, she is stern when she needs to be and she successfully saved Andor from a brutal civil war through her political and military machinations.
I agree with all of the above, which is why I do like her, but her recklessness is particularly grating since she was not only putting her own life at risk, but also that of her children, Birgitte, and Rand (and in turn the entire world). Not to mention the whole Black Ajah debacle in KoD and her refusal to feel guilt over the loss of life that resulted in. So I don't think it's wholly unfair that Elayne gets more criticism than others for being reckless—it's one of her biggest flaws, and it took for her to get stabbed by Hanlon before she learned that lesson.

I think another, more unfair reason for the Elayne hatred is that a lot of people were bored to tears by her dealings with the Sea Folk and the Succession storyline. Few things build resentment as much as boredom. Perrin also received a fair amount of hatred for having a boring storyline ("Faaaaile!") in the later books.
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Old 03-05-2012, 07:05 PM
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for being reckless—it's one of her biggest flaws, and it took for her to get stabbed by Hanlon before she learned that lesson.
Burn my soul, that's right! After that minor altercation, she wouldn't . . . dream . . . of putting herself into danger, and certainly not without giving warning to her allies.
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Old 03-05-2012, 07:17 PM
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Burn my soul, that's right! After that minor altercation, she wouldn't . . . dream . . . of putting herself into danger, and certainly not without giving warning to her allies.
Well, mostly learned that lesson. Somewhat. All right, maybe just a little bit...
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Old 03-05-2012, 10:34 PM
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You know, for Egwene and Elayne haters, Avi's possible-future visions don't seem so bad. We have Elayne not queen when she should probably still be alive, AND the fall of the White Tower when Egwene is probably still Amyrlin.
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Old 03-06-2012, 06:20 AM
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I think the recklessness in KoD was RJs way of hanging a lantern on Min's viewing about Elaynes babies.
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Old 03-06-2012, 11:36 AM
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You know, for Egwene and Elayne haters, Avi's possible-future visions don't seem so bad. We have Elayne not queen when she should probably still be alive, AND the fall of the White Tower when Egwene is probably still Amyrlin.
I'm not an Egwene hater (but I'm definitely an Elayne hater).

I don't want her to die though, I just want her to be less of a flaming milk-faced chit.
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Old 03-06-2012, 11:39 AM
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I think the recklessness in KoD was RJs way of hanging a lantern on Min's viewing about Elaynes babies.
Well, KoD provided a scenario in which Min's viewing could come true in the worst way possible: Elayne could still have given birth to healthy babies while held captive by the Black Ajah. So that really should have been a wake-up call that she shouldn't stake everything on that viewing.

I think Elayne's storyline in the later books would have been far more tolerable without the pregnancy. Her relationship with Rand was never believable in the first place, but even less so when she neglected to tell him about her pregnancy, despite knowing he could die any day. Even when Rand completely lost hope in TGS, talking about how much he wished he could leave something good behind, it never occurred to either Min or Aviendha to tell him he was going to be a father (of six children, no less). I get why it couldn't happen—Rand had to hit rock bottom in TGS—but it still made it seem like Rand was just a sperm donor they didn't particularly care about. It's one of the series' biggest flaws, IMO: too often, people behave stupidly just because the plot wouldn't work if everyone acted rationally and shared important information.
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Old 03-06-2012, 11:42 AM
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Um...in real life, people act stupidly and people dont share information. This isn't the age of the internet...people often operate with incomplete facts and make bad judgments.
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