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  #1  
Old 03-13-2012, 05:48 PM
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Default Reality and the Absence of Meaning

Has Egwene ever met her toh to Rhuarc, Aviendha, or Melaine?

ETA: I wanted to do a little poking around before I asked this, but is there any reason to think Egwene's dreams the night after being raised may be prophetic? I got egg on my face very early on (back when I was Gnat!) because I assumed that a dream that Egwene dismissed as just a dream was just a dream, when in fact it was clearly a prophecy. Could we all be doing the same here?

Further ETA: I am not asking this to stimulate any kind of debate on Egwene's qualities as an individual, a politician, or a fictional construct.
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Old 03-13-2012, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
ETA: I wanted to do a little poking around before I asked this, but is there any reason to think Egwene's dreams the night after being raised may be prophetic? I got egg on my face very early on (back when I was Gnat!) because I assumed that a dream that Egwene dismissed as just a dream was just a dream, when in fact it was clearly a prophecy. Could we all be doing the same here?
Care to be a bit more specific about what dream you mean? I could probably remember if you actually told me what it was about, but "the one right after she was raised", doesn't really help. Especially considering she was raised twice.
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Old 03-13-2012, 06:45 PM
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Care to be a bit more specific about what dream you mean? I could probably remember if you actually told me what it was about, but "the one right after she was raised", doesn't really help. Especially considering she was raised twice.
Sorry, the first time, in LOC. I actually found the quote but couldn't be bothered to type it up (been typing since 10.30 this morning - it's now 10.30 this evening). It's chapter 36.
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wearer of a crown of swords, spinner out of fate.
Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time,
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Old 03-13-2012, 06:53 PM
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By the time Egwene channeled the last lamp out, she expected a sleep full of nightmares. In fact there were only two that she remembered the next morning. In one she was Amyrlin—Aes Sedai, but without taking the oaths—and everything she did led to disaster. That wakened her bolt upright, just to get away, yet she was sure it was not a dream with meaning. It was much the same as one of her experiences inside the ter’angreal where she had been tested for Accepted; as far as anyone knew, those had no connection to reality. Not to this reality. The other was the sort of foolishness she expected; she knew enough about her own dreams now to know that, even if she had to wake herself finally to escape that one as well. Sheriam had snatched the stole from her shoulders, and then everyone was laughing at her and pointing at the fool who really believed a girl of barely eighteen years could be Amyrlin. Not just the Aes Sedai, but all the Wise Ones, and Rand and Perrin and Mat, Nynaeve and Elayne, almost everyone she had ever met, while she stood there naked, desperately trying to put on an Accepted’s dress that might have fit a ten-year-old child.
Here we are. Ctrl-c, Ctrl-v
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Old 03-13-2012, 07:07 PM
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Egwene often takes dreams for being 'regular' ones when they're not. Like her father's hands being bound by Whitecloaks.
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Old 03-13-2012, 07:12 PM
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Egwene often takes dreams for being 'regular' ones when they're not. Like her father's hands being bound by Whitecloaks.
That's what I was getting at - I'm not seeing these dreams listed anywhere as unfulfilled prophecies, yet to me I'm not willing to risk assuming anything she dreams is just a dream any more (even the vague threat dreams Halima caused). I guess more than answering the question, I was hoping to get some different thoughts on it. Maybe I should have started a thread, sorry.
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wearer of a crown of swords, spinner out of fate.
Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time,
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Light is held before the maw of the infinite void, and all that he is can be seized.

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Old 03-13-2012, 07:14 PM
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I'm not sure I follow. You think the dream I quoted is somehow related to her toh?
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Old 03-13-2012, 07:17 PM
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I'm not sure I follow. You think the dream I quoted is somehow related to her toh?
No. Although there might be a theory in it. I found the two quotes in a OneNote file I'd entitled "WOT questions" which I'd created in my reread, and they were unanswered, so I decided to ask them here.
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Master of the lightnings, rider on the storm,
wearer of a crown of swords, spinner out of fate.
Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time,
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Light is held before the maw of the infinite void, and all that he is can be seized.

The one who Death has known
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Old 03-13-2012, 07:20 PM
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Well, if toh can cancel out toh, Egwene might be squared away. Didn't one of the WO say something like 'it is us, and the world itself, who are indebted to you' post Mesaana?
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Old 03-13-2012, 07:22 PM
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Well, if toh can cancel out toh, Egwene might be squared away. Didn't one of the WO say something like 'it is us, and the world itself, who are indebted to you' post Mesaana?
Wow. So that'd basically give Egwene carte blanche, if the entire world owes her toh.
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Master of the lightnings, rider on the storm,
wearer of a crown of swords, spinner out of fate.
Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time,
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Light is held before the maw of the infinite void, and all that he is can be seized.

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Old 03-13-2012, 07:32 PM
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Wow. So that'd basically give Egwene carte blanche, if the entire world owes her toh.
A lot of people will be walking funny if she ever decides to collect.
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Old 03-13-2012, 07:59 PM
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Wow. So that'd basically give Egwene carte blanche, if the entire world owes her toh.
Well (aside from the fact that only the Aiel follow ji'e'toh), I'm sure a few Theorylanders would think that given everything she's (not) done, she's breaking even at best.


Now I have a question:

Can Rand see saidar weaves while he's linked? Or at least sense them? I ask because:
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Awkwardly, forcing himself to work gently, to use the unfamiliar saidar’s own immense strength to guide it as he wanted, he wove a conduit that touched the male half of the Source at one end and the distantly seen city at the other. The conduit had to be of untainted saidar. If this worked as he hoped, a tube of saidin might shatter when the taint began to leech out of it. He thought of it as a tube, at least, though it was not. The weave did not form at all as he expected it to. As if saidar had a mind of its own, the weave took on convolutions and spirals that made him think of a flower. There was nothing to see, no grand weaves sweeping down from the sky. The Source lay at the heart of creation. The Source was everywhere, even in Shadar Logoth. The conduit covered distance beyond his imagining, and had no length at all. It had to be a conduit, no matter its appearance. If it was not . . .
Drawing on saidin, fighting it, mastering it in the deadly dance he knew so well, he forced it into the flowery weave of saidar. And it flowed through. Saidin and saidar, like and unlike, could not mix. The flow of saidin squeezed in on itself, away from the surrounding saidar, and the saidar pushed it from all sides, compressing it further, making it flow faster. Pure saidin, pure except for the taint, touched Shadar Logoth.
He wove saidar on its own first, not like Neald and his gateways. And he had an impession of the weave's nature. I thought he might even be able to see it, if the reason he couldn't here was because the weave existed in some other plane.
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Old 03-14-2012, 12:06 AM
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What the hell is this? Why was my question moved?
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Old 03-14-2012, 12:09 AM
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Because it was attached to the rest of it, and I didn't feel like going to the effort to split up the post. I suspect the world won't end, so calm down. As for your question, it's undoubtedly more of a metaphorical visual for Rand. It's probably that way for saidin too, but because of the intimate relationship with that Power it's more literally visual than it is with saidar. And of course, you can only get the less literal sense of the opposite power if you're in a link. Or reading resonance, which is even more vague.
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Old 03-14-2012, 12:15 AM
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Well, my question also asked about Rand possibly being able to channel saidar (as opposed to Neald). And the metaphorical visual may only not be literal because the Source doesn't have a physical existence.

Why the new thread though? this hardly seems 'especially off-topic' for the Q&A thread. I mean just look at the last two pages.
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Old 03-14-2012, 12:24 AM
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Why the new thread though? this hardly seems 'especially off-topic' for the Q&A thread. I mean just look at the last two pages.
"If I explained my every action to you, I would have no time for anything else."
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Old 03-14-2012, 12:30 AM
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Okay Terez Aes Sedai

I actually didn't know who moved it. But you might have more time to explain your actions if there were slightly fewer of them.
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Old 03-14-2012, 12:55 AM
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See thread title.
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Old 03-14-2012, 12:41 PM
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See thread title.
The new title is margianally less offensive. And it's a near-reference to the inspiration for my name, so I will be content.
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Old 03-14-2012, 01:48 PM
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The new title is margianally less offensive. And it's a near-reference to the inspiration for my name, so I will be content.
What was the old title? Or will it make me run off crying?
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Master of the lightnings, rider on the storm,
wearer of a crown of swords, spinner out of fate.
Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time,
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The one who Death has known
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