art by =saintchase

Theoryland Resources

WoT Interview Search

Search the most comprehensive database of interviews and book signings from Robert Jordan, Brandon Sanderson and the rest of Team Jordan.

Wheel of Time News

An Hour With Harriet

2012-04-30: I had the great pleasure of speaking with Harriet McDougal Rigney about her life. She's an amazing talent and person and it will take you less than an hour to agree.

The Bell Tolls

2012-04-24: Some thoughts I had during JordanCon4 and the upcoming conclusion of "The Wheel of Time."

Theoryland Community

Members: 7653

Logged In (2): uausnaughbroo, engagementengag,

Newest Members:johnroserking, petermorris, johnadanbvv, AndrewHB, jofwu, Salemcat1, Dhakatimesnews, amazingz, Sasooner, Hasib123,

Theoryland Tweets

Forums

Home | Chat | Old Forums(Yuku)


Go Back   Theoryland of the Wheel of Time Forums > WHEEL OF TIME FORUMS > General Wheel of Time Discussion
User Name
Password

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-22-2012, 08:17 PM
Jasin Natael Jasin Natael is offline
Youngling
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 58
Jasin Natael is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Nynaeve's army

Lan wants to go to the blight. In order to spare him from emotional distress, Nynaeve tells him he can leave. SHe goes to great lengths to organise an army for him and forces him to let them come.

All the feedback I've seen presents this as a heartwarming moment.

Is it just me, or is this one of the most despicable things anyone on the side of light has done in the series? Nynaeve has sent thousands of men to their deaths, in order to give her husband a chance to survive. And she sent him there in the first place.

Perrin does something similar for Faile, but he doesn't just charge in and lead a army to their deaths. Thoughts?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-22-2012, 11:50 PM
Great Lord of the Dark Great Lord of the Dark is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 261
Great Lord of the Dark is a name known to allGreat Lord of the Dark is a name known to allGreat Lord of the Dark is a name known to allGreat Lord of the Dark is a name known to allGreat Lord of the Dark is a name known to allGreat Lord of the Dark is a name known to allGreat Lord of the Dark is a name known to allGreat Lord of the Dark is a name known to allGreat Lord of the Dark is a name known to all
Default So sweet!

Since they are all going to die in the Last Battle anyway, they are overjoyed to get a chance to do so avenging what was lost to the Blight. Anyone who follows Lan has weighed the certainty of death against whatever else they care about, and chosen death. Nynaeve gave them a choice, and a chance to decide where they stand.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-22-2012, 11:59 PM
Terez's Avatar
Terez Terez is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Corn
Posts: 21,128
Terez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Terez
Default

I just read it again because I wanted to make some arguments about it, but it made me cry so now I don't feel like it.
__________________
Qui nos rodunt confundantur, et cum iustis non scribantur.
@Terez27
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-23-2012, 12:51 AM
fionwe1987 fionwe1987 is offline
Youngling
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,682
fionwe1987 has a brilliant futurefionwe1987 has a brilliant futurefionwe1987 has a brilliant futurefionwe1987 has a brilliant futurefionwe1987 has a brilliant futurefionwe1987 has a brilliant futurefionwe1987 has a brilliant futurefionwe1987 has a brilliant futurefionwe1987 has a brilliant futurefionwe1987 has a brilliant futurefionwe1987 has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez View Post
I just read it again because I wanted to make some arguments about it, but it made me cry so now I don't feel like it.
It was a fantastic scene, wasn't it? Its moments like these that make you wonder what being close to a ta'veren, and integral to his plans means for you. We've seen it with Egwene, Elayne, Nynaeve, Min... its almost like ta'veren rubs off on these people. Of course, what actually happens is that truly charismatic/capable people end up being put around the ta'veren.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-23-2012, 05:19 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 15,861
GonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasin Natael View Post
Is it just me, or is this one of the most despicable things anyone on the side of light has done in the series? Nynaeve has sent thousands of men to their deaths, in order to give her husband a chance to survive. And she sent him there in the first place.
She did not sent him there. She stopped stopping him from going there.

The men who joined Lan are all volunteers, as far as we know. All that Nynaeve did was send a message (what's the saidar equivalent of a Tweet called?) to let people know that there was something to volunteer for.

Quote:
Perrin does something similar for Faile, but he doesn't just charge in and lead a army to their deaths. Thoughts?
At that point in the story, Perrin is an experienced leader. If you recall, when he first went back to the TR, his plan was to just barge (not even charge) in and let the Whitecloaks hang him. He has learned, and I expect that Lan will learn too.
Assuming that he survives, of course. But, as the saying goes, "you live and learn" implying that if you don't live, then you're unlikely to learn.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-23-2012, 05:23 AM
Terez's Avatar
Terez Terez is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Corn
Posts: 21,128
Terez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Terez
Default

I think he figured that out a long time ago. "You surrender after you're dead."
__________________
Qui nos rodunt confundantur, et cum iustis non scribantur.
@Terez27
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-23-2012, 08:37 AM
Ishara's Avatar
Ishara Ishara is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,424
Ishara has disabled reputation
Send a message via MSN to Ishara
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez View Post
I just read it again because I wanted to make some arguments about it, but it made me cry so now I don't feel like it.
LOL

A provocative premise Jasin, but I don't think you'll find any who agree with you.

GLotD is bang on, in my opinion. These people knew the cost of joining Lan and chose to pay it how they would. They are choosing the manner of their death in days when their death seems inevitable. Better that it have meaning and honour, no?
__________________
Courage my friends, it's not too late for a better world. -- Tommy Douglas

Rand: You are an insensitive bastard!!!
Mat: And you ruined another hat!


It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by lightening. -- Calvin

"Gee, I wish I could do magic! Maybe I'll try!" --SDog

Official Vixen of Theoryland and Theoryland Siren

Grain Goddess, the Rood Inverse, the Mad Glomper
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-23-2012, 08:59 AM
Davian93's Avatar
Davian93 Davian93 is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 20,144
Davian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I'm sure they'll be spared at the last possible moment anyway as Lan is 99% going to survive that battle.
__________________
Bonded to Brita

"We caught them in an alley on skid row in downtown Philly and brought them down with Uzi's and dogs. I beat the shit out of one of the guys for resisting arrest. After that, I went home, fried up some tofu with strawberry preserves and melon sticky rice, laid down on the couch with my snuggie and ate rose petals in sweet daisy wine sauce and watched Mamma Mia on DVD and then cried myself to sleep."

Theoryland: Just Some Crazy In A Pot
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-23-2012, 09:48 AM
Isabel Isabel is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 2,088
Isabel is a splendid one to beholdIsabel is a splendid one to beholdIsabel is a splendid one to beholdIsabel is a splendid one to beholdIsabel is a splendid one to beholdIsabel is a splendid one to beholdIsabel is a splendid one to beholdIsabel is a splendid one to beholdIsabel is a splendid one to beholdIsabel is a splendid one to behold
Send a message via MSN to Isabel
Default

Exactly as people said: Nynaeve never compelled or forced anyone to go help Lan. She only told people who would care about it, that their king was riding alone to Tarwin's Gab. They decided by themselves to come. She did visit a lot of places, but the majority of Lan's army came not from the visit of Nynaeve, but of the knowledge that he was going to fight in Tarmon Gaidon.
__________________
'Rand al'Thor, Nynaeve shrieked, that is the most outrageous thing I ever heard out of your mouth. The very idea of telling three women you love them! You are worse than a lecher. You apologize right now!'

Isabel sedai of the Green Ajah, Amyrlin of the Official Nynaeve Fanclub, first sister to Gennie Sedai of the Green Ajah, bonded to Camel, Wolf Gaidin, Jachthond and ghostrider.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-23-2012, 09:52 AM
Davian93's Avatar
Davian93 Davian93 is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 20,144
Davian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isabel View Post
Exactly as people said: Nynaeve never compelled or forced anyone to go help Lan. She only told people who would care about it, that their king was riding alone to Tarwin's Gab. They decided by themselves to come. She did visit a lot of places, but the majority of Lan's army came not from the visit of Nynaeve, but of the knowledge that he was going to fight in Tarmon Gaidon.

The same people that had been begging Lan to raise the Golden Crane for 40+ years...she hardly had to twist their arms very much.
__________________
Bonded to Brita

"We caught them in an alley on skid row in downtown Philly and brought them down with Uzi's and dogs. I beat the shit out of one of the guys for resisting arrest. After that, I went home, fried up some tofu with strawberry preserves and melon sticky rice, laid down on the couch with my snuggie and ate rose petals in sweet daisy wine sauce and watched Mamma Mia on DVD and then cried myself to sleep."

Theoryland: Just Some Crazy In A Pot
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-23-2012, 09:59 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 15,861
GonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isabel View Post
She only told people who would care about it, that their king was riding alone to Tarwin's Gab.
Neat typo, that.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-23-2012, 01:31 PM
Weiramon's Avatar
Weiramon Weiramon is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Spun out once more
Posts: 346
Weiramon has a reputation beyond reputeWeiramon has a reputation beyond reputeWeiramon has a reputation beyond reputeWeiramon has a reputation beyond reputeWeiramon has a reputation beyond reputeWeiramon has a reputation beyond reputeWeiramon has a reputation beyond reputeWeiramon has a reputation beyond reputeWeiramon has a reputation beyond reputeWeiramon has a reputation beyond reputeWeiramon has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasin Natael View Post
but he doesn't just charge in and lead a army to their deaths. Thoughts?
Burn my soul, I can think of no better tactic.

Why, only peasants and minstrels would belittle the brilliance of a headlong charge in a confined pass. Hopefully it won't be tainted by having channelers show up and steal the glory. After all, the old ways are best.
__________________
Los! Los caba'drin!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-23-2012, 04:05 PM
Jasin Natael Jasin Natael is offline
Youngling
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 58
Jasin Natael is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Great Lord of the Dark View Post
Since they are all going to die in the Last Battle anyway, they are overjoyed to get a chance to do so avenging what was lost to the Blight. Anyone who follows Lan has weighed the certainty of death against whatever else they care about, and chosen death. Nynaeve gave them a choice, and a chance to decide where they stand.
Presumably some people are going to survive the last battle, right? How depressing would it be if the reward for standing against the blight for 3,000 years is to be annihilated in TG?

Nynaeve manipulated the Borderlands sense of honour. Remember 'Duty is heavier than a mountain, death lighter than a feather'. Lan knows he can raise an army, the reason he doesn't, is because he wants to do anything possible to avoid leading the rest of his people to their deaths.

Quote:
If you recall, when he first went back to the TR, his plan was to just barge (not even charge) in and let the Whitecloaks hang him.
Hang him, yes. Not hang everyone in the two rivers so Master Luhhan might escape in the confusion.
Quote:
I'm sure they'll be spared at the last possible moment anyway as Lan is 99% going to survive that battle.
Exactly my point. If Lan survives, why should Nynaeve care that she's sent thousands of other women's husbands to their deaths?

Quote:
The same people that had been begging Lan to raise the Golden Crane for 40+ years...she hardly had to twist their arms very much.
Malkier has been gone for 40 years at least. Most of Lan's army won't even be old enough to remember it, they'll just have been fed stories about how great and noble it was by their parents. A lot of them likely have no clue what they're letting themselves in for.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-23-2012, 05:09 PM
Dom Dom is offline
ReadandFindOut.com
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Montréal - Qc - Canada
Posts: 862
Dom has a brilliant futureDom has a brilliant futureDom has a brilliant futureDom has a brilliant futureDom has a brilliant futureDom has a brilliant futureDom has a brilliant futureDom has a brilliant futureDom has a brilliant futureDom has a brilliant futureDom has a brilliant future
Default ... is Lan's

Quote:
Nynaeve manipulated the Borderlands sense of honour. Remember 'Duty is heavier than a mountain, death lighter than a feather'. Lan knows he can raise an army, the reason he doesn't, is because he wants to do anything possible to avoid leading the rest of his people to their deaths.
Which is doubly stupid because his motivation to go there himself was precisely that the Borderlands rulers had abandonned their primary duty... just as he was overlooking his own real duty by planning to join as a soldier whatever forces had assembled there rather than make use of the power the Golden Crane still holds in Borderlanders's mind and heart and give the Light all he's worth as a leader of men. Lan raising the Golden Crane would strenghten the Light, but Lan like Perrin in the Two Rivers storyline stubbornly refused to play the role the Bordermen have longed begged him to play.

Nynaeve "sacrificed" no one. Few in the LB will be spared Tarmon Gai'don and those men would have joined the GC had Lan raised it. Nyaneve merely made sure all men who would have joined Lan had the opportunity to do it and he wouldn't go die a meaningless death as a soldier when taking up leadership and making full use of the Golden Crane would have a very tangible effect on the forces fighting the LB in the eastern Borderlands, all the more if Lan was, at it appeared then, the only remaining symbol around which to gather the Bordermen.

What Nynaeve did is extremely similar to what Alanna did back in TSR. Alanna was a Green who had to transform rapidly a village into an army that wouldn't break. The village couldn't afford Perrin standing aside as "just another soldier". Alanna needed Perrin to step up and embrace the role of leader and symbol the villagers wanted him to play, and gain hope, confidence, resilience from having him at their head. The fact he was ta'veren only helped all this, but Alanna spread the wolf as enemy of the Shadow mythos, encouraged the banners and Verin and her made sure not to overshadow Perrin etc.

In Nynaeve's place, Alanna and tons of other people would also have worked to force Lan to raise the Golden Crane.


Quote:
Most of Lan's army won't even be old enough to remember it, they'll just have been fed stories about how great and noble it was by their parents. A lot of them likely have no clue what they're letting themselves in for.
Few do - even Bashere and the Saldaeans were deeply shocked by the attack on the Tairen Manor. That's still what they will all soon face. Don't expect Nynaeve to go play the betrayer of hope and crush the spirit of those she sent to Lan's banner... that's precisely the attitude she meant to force Lan to abandon, this whole notion it was an hopeless fight with only death at the end. Lan's oath pulled him to return to the Borderlands, Nynaeve just made sure his power as an inspirational figure wouldn't get wasted by a meaningless self-sacrifice that would fulfill the letter but not the spirit of Lan's oath.

Nynaeve didn't really did this in the hope of saving Lan's life. She's only too aware by agreeing to let Lan go north there was a fair chance she's lost him. She just accepted she couldn't hang to Lan, that it was neither the right thing for him, nor for humanity. She also accepted she couldn't join him, that her place was near Rand until the Pit of Doom if necessary. But she refuses to give up hope Lan might survive, and if he was still to die, she refused Lan got a meaningless death. Lan didn't want to try to lift the mountain, she forced him to try.

That was the most selfless act Nynaeve has done in the series.

Nynaeve herself is so committed, she was just as comitted before even knowing what she got herself into and never wavered from that, if anyone has the moral right to call others to make the same choice, it's her. That commitment is why Lan fell in love with her, just like Lan's commitment, and his loss, is what attracted her to him.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-23-2012, 05:26 PM
Heinz Heinz is offline
Youngling
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 234
Heinz will become famous soon enoughHeinz will become famous soon enough
Default

Are you a 'glass is never full enough' kind of person? ...Nevermind.

An item I think you're overlooking is that you assume the Light will win the Last Battle. A calculation you must consider is if the Light would win without the participation of each and every soldier it is able to muster. Remember, Rand's presence only gives the Light a chance, not a promise, of victory.

I know.. I know.. 'but what does one person or do a few people matter? They could have lived!'

Multiply that by 5,000, or 50,000, or whatever, and figure it out. How many soldiers can you lose before you no longer have the numbers to win?

A final point.. you are also assuming that each and every soul would live a long and happy life if they don't march with Lan, and Nyn took that away from them.
a) You don't know if all will die. Or how many will die.
b) You cannot speak for their honor and morals. Did it occur to you that they would be ashamed if the Last Battle occurred, and they spent it hiding? One of the recurring themes in the series, and especially in the last few books (such as the prologues to tGS, ToM, and now the reading Harriet gave from aMoL), is that these people would rather face the danger than run from it.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05-23-2012, 06:54 PM
Rand al'Fain's Avatar
Rand al'Fain Rand al'Fain is online now
Elder
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1,101
Rand al'Fain is a glorious beacon of lightRand al'Fain is a glorious beacon of lightRand al'Fain is a glorious beacon of lightRand al'Fain is a glorious beacon of lightRand al'Fain is a glorious beacon of lightRand al'Fain is a glorious beacon of light
Default

As others have said, no one forced the Borderlanders to come to Lan. Nynaeve let some Malkieri know that Lan was riding to the Gap alone. The Malkieri, and other Borderlanders from the sounds of it, joined Lan at the Gap. And we know since at least New Spring that should the Golden Crane be raised that an army would willingly come to it.

As for being at the Gap itself, the Gap will hold it so that the Trollocs will not be able to have any more soldiers at the front than Lan's army. Which means, if nothing else, Lan's army can delay the Trolloc forces for a while, buying valuable time for armies and civilians alike to either prepare or evacuate for the oncoming Trolloc horde that will burst out of the Gap.

And the Borderlanders, probably more than any other people, know what is at stake should the Gap not be held. For those that go, they know their (most likely) fate, much as did the people of Manethren when they marched to help the weary and ravaged army in one last attempt to buy time for those that would live. Like the Spartan led forces at Thermopylae, who would hold the pass, against incredibly overwhelming odds, in order for Athens to evacuate and the Athenian navy to cripple the Persian navy. Did they all expect to die? Certainly, but it was so that others may live to keep fighting and have a chance at victory.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-24-2012, 05:52 PM
Jasin Natael Jasin Natael is offline
Youngling
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 58
Jasin Natael is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinz View Post
Are you a 'glass is never full enough' kind of person? ...Nevermind.

An item I think you're overlooking is that you assume the Light will win the Last Battle. A calculation you must consider is if the Light would win without the participation of each and every soldier it is able to muster. Remember, Rand's presence only gives the Light a chance, not a promise, of victory.

I know.. I know.. 'but what does one person or do a few people matter? They could have lived!'

Multiply that by 5,000, or 50,000, or whatever, and figure it out. How many soldiers can you lose before you no longer have the numbers to win?

A final point.. you are also assuming that each and every soul would live a long and happy life if they don't march with Lan, and Nyn took that away from them.
a) You don't know if all will die. Or how many will die.
b) You cannot speak for their honor and morals. Did it occur to you that they would be ashamed if the Last Battle occurred, and they spent it hiding? One of the recurring themes in the series, and especially in the last few books (such as the prologues to tGS, ToM, and now the reading Harriet gave from aMoL), is that these people would rather face the danger than run from it.
The last battle will not really be won by soldiers. It will be won, if it is won, by whatever Rand does at Shayol Ghul.

Where do I assume that all the Malkieri will have happy lives? Also, I don't think it's an unfair assumption that when an army is sent to fight a battle, some of them will die.

You tell me that I can't speak for the Malkieri honor and morals. Then you immediately speak for their honor and morals by pointing out that they would be tortured by the shame of not fighting in TG, even though if they wanted to volunteer, they could just join the other borderlands armies.

Notably, the people joining Lan are not even all soldiers! Borderlanders are tougher than Southerners, but Nynaeve first approaches a gem merchant, and the first to join him is a boy. There'll be veterans as well, but he's leading militia, not an army.

Given that Trollocs are burning Caemlyn, I don't think the gap is as important as it used to be.

From the passage where she sends him. Nynaeve's internal monologue states that her motivation is to give Lan a chance to survive.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05-24-2012, 06:34 PM
Kimon's Avatar
Kimon Kimon is offline
Ancient
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 3,402
Kimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond reputeKimon has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasin Natael View Post
The last battle will not really be won by soldiers. It will be won, if it is won, by whatever Rand does at Shayol Ghul.

Where do I assume that all the Malkieri will have happy lives? Also, I don't think it's an unfair assumption that when an army is sent to fight a battle, some of them will die.

You tell me that I can't speak for the Malkieri honor and morals. Then you immediately speak for their honor and morals by pointing out that they would be tortured by the shame of not fighting in TG, even though if they wanted to volunteer, they could just join the other borderlands armies.

Notably, the people joining Lan are not even all soldiers! Borderlanders are tougher than Southerners, but Nynaeve first approaches a gem merchant, and the first to join him is a boy. There'll be veterans as well, but he's leading militia, not an army.

Given that Trollocs are burning Caemlyn, I don't think the gap is as important as it used to be.

From the passage where she sends him. Nynaeve's internal monologue states that her motivation is to give Lan a chance to survive.
Rand is the key to victory, but that does not mean that everyone else can just sit back and enjoy the show - especially the Borderlanders. Most of the military strength of the Borderlands is away in the south, which left Saldaea noticeably vulnerable. Of course, considering what was sent against them, anything short of Rand might have been incapable of halting the tide, but nonetheless, if they all sit back and assume that all will be well and just go about their lives, Rand may well still win, but such a victory likely wouldn't leave many alive in the Borderlands to enjoy the fruits of that victory. Hence Lan. His job is to rally the Borderlanders, and save them so that some of the people of the north can not only enjoy that victory, but in the case of the Malkieri, recreate a sense of unity and pride, so that they can reform their lost nation of Malkier once the Blight withdraws from their ancient homeland. Sure, some of the men who fight with Lan will die because of that choice. But they won't be dying in vain. As for whether Nynaeve's actions here were purely altruistic, of course not, but that does not mean that they do not, nonetheless, serve a necessary purpose. Lan needs to be more than a sacrificial lamb - that's Rand's role, not Lan's. Lan needs to survive so that he can rally the forces of the Light in the North, and then after TG, so that he can recreate Malkier.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 05-24-2012, 07:55 PM
jana's Avatar
jana jana is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,051
jana has a reputation beyond reputejana has a reputation beyond reputejana has a reputation beyond reputejana has a reputation beyond reputejana has a reputation beyond reputejana has a reputation beyond reputejana has a reputation beyond reputejana has a reputation beyond reputejana has a reputation beyond reputejana has a reputation beyond reputejana has a reputation beyond repute
Default

If only there was negative rep
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 05-24-2012, 08:10 PM
Terez's Avatar
Terez Terez is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Corn
Posts: 21,128
Terez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Terez
Default

There is, but bossman sadly won't activate it.
__________________
Qui nos rodunt confundantur, et cum iustis non scribantur.
@Terez27
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.