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  #201  
Old 06-15-2012, 12:22 PM
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I go with order of publish for rereads...when I dont go with the random order reread where I just randomly take books off the shelf in no particular order (that is actually fun IMHO and I've done it a few times).
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  #202  
Old 06-15-2012, 01:30 PM
Great Lord of the Dark Great Lord of the Dark is offline
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Default New Spring first

I found that chronological order works much better with this reread. Cadsuane's early appearance does not detract from her sudden disruptive arrival in Book 7. The confirmed existence of the Black Ajah does not affect the paranoia formed over it in Book 3. There is a slight shift from this being Rand's story, to this being Lan and Moiraine's story (in which Rand is a bit player) the legacy of which will largely depend on whether A Memory of Light ends with any perspective from either Lan or Moiraine. There is certainly no added confusion for a new reader by starting with New Spring, since Book 1 doesn't explain the context for a lot of things until later in any case.

Whatever I said in years past, you don't lose anything by starting with New Spring, and you gain the ability not to interrupt the flow of the main story.
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  #203  
Old 06-15-2012, 03:20 PM
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Brandon recommended new readers not start there because it reveals too much about Moiraine and Lan; they're supposed to be mysterious in the early books. On top of that, all those Aes Sedai will be forgotten by the time they reappear in the series.
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  #204  
Old 06-15-2012, 05:23 PM
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Default Still go chronological

The main mystery about Moiraine is whether she means Rand ill as Ba'alzamon implies. While it affects certain decisions the boys make, I don't see that the reader's perception is altered; Moiraine saved the Two Rivers, Ba'alzamon is the embodiment of the Dark One. Clearly evil trumps mysterious motives. Knowing Moiraine's motives in no way diminishes the mystery of how she plans to act on those motives: will she lock Rand away in the White Tower until Tarmon Gai'don, or use him and toss him away once his purpose has been served?

Any mystery about their origins is largely inconsequential, and shouldn't act as a reason to read New Spring later.

recognizing the third-tier Aes Sedai as novices and Accepted is more of an Easter Egg than a compelling reason to read in any order.

But if you are going to read New Spring later, then you have chosen one of the two good spots, at the end of the second major act where there is a sense of closure.

The other logical spot to read it is after it's original publication as a short story in Legends, right after A Crown of Swords, (take that you publication date fetishists) which also ends with a note of closure, and has the bonus of coming immediately after the introduction of Cadsuane and the Vileness, so you can satisfy your curiosity on these topics right away. You also get a bonus of 'look how close they came to inviting Sheriam on the hunt' just before her Dark affiliations are revealed in the main series.
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  #205  
Old 06-15-2012, 06:46 PM
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It also takes away the mystery surrounding Rand. I don't think I'd ever recommend for a new reader to read New Spring first.
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  #206  
Old 06-15-2012, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Great Lord of the Dark View Post
The main mystery about Moiraine is whether she means Rand ill as Ba'alzamon implies. While it affects certain decisions the boys make, I don't see that the reader's perception is altered; Moiraine saved the Two Rivers, Ba'alzamon is the embodiment of the Dark One. Clearly evil trumps mysterious motives. Knowing Moiraine's motives in no way diminishes the mystery of how she plans to act on those motives: will she lock Rand away in the White Tower until Tarmon Gai'don, or use him and toss him away once his purpose has been served?

Any mystery about their origins is largely inconsequential, and shouldn't act as a reason to read New Spring later.
I disagree completely, at least as far as new readers are concerned. Moiraine worried me in EotW. I flip flopped back and forth on her about every other chapter until around the time they all reunited in Caemlyn. Yes, she saved the Two Rivers. But I was still worried about her. There is no way in hell I would have had any doubt on her after reading New Spring. She was almost warm in that book. It would never have even entered my mind that she would do Rand harm or "lock him away." In my experience with the first half of EotW, Moiraine created about 1/4 of the tension. This would not have been the case if I'd read New Spring first. I would never recommend reading NS first to someone new to the series.
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  #207  
Old 06-16-2012, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COT, Glimmers of the Pattern
Some of the Asha’man might believe the Aes Sedai were resigned to their captivity, but only a fool could think fifty-one sisters who had been forcibly bonded would all embrace resignation, and Logain was no fool. Besides, he knew they had been sent to destroy the Black Tower. Yet if he suspected that they were still trying to find a way to end the threat of hundreds of men who could channel... Light, constrained as they were, one order could halt them in their tracks! You will do nothing to harm the Black Tower. She could not understand why that command had not been given as a simple precaution....

...It was all Gabrelle could do to control the fear that was rising in her. Did Toveine never think about what she must sense through the bond? Something that had always been there in the connection with Logain – determination – now lay hard and sharp as a knife. She thought she knew what it meant, this time, and knowing made her mouth dry. Against whom, she could not say, but she was sure that Logain Ablar was riding to war.
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  #208  
Old 06-16-2012, 08:57 AM
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Default new possibility

Of course, when the series is all done, it may be that the best place to read New Spring is after A Memory of Light, to not interrupt the main sequence. If those other two outriggers had ever been written, I suspect we wouldn't be trying to plug them in the middle.

I suppose it makes a difference whether you're talking about a new reader vs. a reread. But The Eye of the World is a better hook to lure them in, which is probably the only consideration we have when we're convincing new readers this 14.5 volume epic is the next thing they should read.
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  #209  
Old 06-16-2012, 09:31 AM
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Why not advise them to start at the beginning, with the BWB?
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  #210  
Old 06-16-2012, 04:03 PM
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In my current re-read I started with new spring; it only worked in that order BECAUSE I have read the books previously.

For a first time reader; I would recommend it just after tFoH after Morraine's disappearance as part of a "flashback".... but that is my personal preference.
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  #211  
Old 06-16-2012, 05:33 PM
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The last couple of times I've reread, I've read according to internal chronology, i.e. New Spring first. I do feel it takes something away from TEOTW; the sense of mystery surrounding Lan and Moiraine that Terez mentioned is all gone, and it becomes far too blindingly obvious that Rand is the Dragon Reborn. When I do my post-AMOL reread, I'll slip it in somewhere appropriate; I think just after Moiraine's "death" in TFOH would be a great place for it.
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  #212  
Old 06-17-2012, 04:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COT 5, The Forging of a Hammer
Once, the thought of Faile displeased would have made him uneasy, but that was before he learned about her spies. And that little matter of the Broken Crown that Elyas had let slip. Everybody always said that wives kept their secrets close, but there were limits!
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEOTW 23, Wolfbrother
Egwene began at once, smoothly. They were from the north, from Saldaea, from farms outside a tiny village. Neither of them had been more than twenty miles from home in their whole lives before this. But they had heard gleemen's stories, and merchants' tales, and they wanted to see some of the world. Caemlyn, and Illian. The Sea of Storms, and maybe even the fabled islands of the Sea Folk.

Perrin listened with satisfaction. Not even Thom Merrilin could have made a better tale from the little they knew of the world outside the Two Rivers, or one better suited to their needs.

"From Saldaea, eh?" Elyas said when she was done.

Perrin nodded. "That's right. We thought about seeing Maradon first. I'd surely like to see the King. But the capital city would be the first place our fathers would look."

That was his part of it, to make it plain they had never been to Maradon. That way no one would expect them to know anything about the city, just in case they ran into someone who really had been there. It was all a long way from Emond's Field and the events of Winternight. Nobody hearing the tale would have any reason to think of Tar Valon, or Aes Sedai.

"Quite a story." Elyas nodded. "Yes, quite a story. There's a few things wrong with it, but the main thing is Dapple says it's all a lump of lies. Every last word."
I love little ironies.
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  #213  
Old 06-17-2012, 05:00 AM
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"I'd surely like to see the King."

BWAHAHAHAHA!
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  #214  
Old 06-17-2012, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by fionwe1987 View Post
"I'd surely like to see the King."

BWAHAHAHAHA!
I actually never caught that one. Good find.
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  #215  
Old 06-18-2012, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
I actually never caught that one. Good find.
It does somewhat detract from the humor that Dapple needs to be the one that detects the lies. Elyas, as Terez's quoting makes clear, should know full well that they were not Saldaean peasants based that "King" flub (ignoring their accents, which are distinctive enough that Morsase recognized Rand's based on hearing it once in the past). Ah, farm folk, not realizing that accents are a thing and making themselves look silly in so doing.

Of course, he does say that there are a few things wrong with the story, so I'm just being too nitpicky I think. Elyas was just using it to make a point about the wolves to prepare Perrin for his big reveal.

Last edited by Grig; 06-18-2012 at 07:14 PM.
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  #216  
Old 06-18-2012, 10:47 PM
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Elyas assuredly did catch it but Dapple was the pack leader and Elyas was merely acting as a translator for her in that scene. So it was kinda both to be honest.
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  #217  
Old 06-18-2012, 10:58 PM
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In Perrin's chapters after the Cleansing is done, Neald is annoying him because he's being cheerful and Perrin doesn't know why. He laughs a lot and Perrin thinks he's going mad. It goes on and on, but this bit made me laugh:
Quote:
Originally Posted by COT 27, What Must Be Done
Seonid had to be found. She was not precisely hiding, yet she had learned of his departure, and, leaving her Warders to hold her horse quite openly, she dodged about on foot trying to keep carts between herself and him. The pale Aes Sedai could not hide her scent, though, or if she could, she did not know it was necessary. She was surprised when he tracked her down quickly, and indignant when he marched her to her horse ahead of Stayer. Even so, he was well under the hour riding away from So Habor, with the Winged Guards making their ring of red armor around Berelain, the Two Rivers men surrounding the eight loaded carts that trundled along behind the three remaining banners, and Neald grinning for all he was worth. Not to mention trying to chat up the Aes Sedai. Perrin did not know what to do if the fellow really was going mad.
It's funny, but it seems to suggest that Neald feels an equality with the Aes Sedai that he didn't feel before.
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  #218  
Old 06-18-2012, 11:08 PM
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Also, I'd forgotten about this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by COT 27, What Must Be Done
I once met a man who was far from home.
His eyes were yellow and his wits were stone.
He asked me to hold smoke in my hand,
and said he could show me a watery land.
He put his head in the ground and his feet in the air,
and said he could dance like a woman fair.
He said he could stand till he turned to stone.
When I blinked my eyes, he was gone.
No one ever talks about it that I know of.
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  #219  
Old 06-19-2012, 03:49 AM
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On the subject of Sorilea again (and hopefully we've gotten that mostly out of our systems for the moment; I think we all know how we stand now), I think Suroth's POV is a really good example of how Sorilea's brain might work. The Seanchan version of ji'e'toh has a harder grip on her brain than the Shadow does in many ways. I compare the Seanchan hierarchical customs to ji'e'toh because the rules are just as complex and rigid, even though the hierarchical aspect of ji'e'toh is not, really, and many aspects of it seem more casual. Suroth is very concerned about the honor of her name, and not only because it is a tool to help her achieve her objectives; she is concerned about it for after her death as well.
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Old 06-19-2012, 07:36 AM
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Description fail:
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOC 6, Threads Woven of Shadow
Sipping her wine – and suppressing a sigh; it was from the here and now; she had hoped for a delicate Satare or one of the exquisite Comolads – she stroked her gown with beringed fingers. "I found one as well, but beyond streith, it contained the most appalling collection of useless rubbish."
Quote:
Originally Posted by KOD 3, At the Gardens
Graendal's gown turned a darker gray, regrettably obscuring the view. It was real streith. Aran'gar had found a pair of stasis-boxes herself, but filled with the most appalling rubbish for the most part.
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