art by =saintchase

Theoryland Resources

WoT Interview Search

Search the most comprehensive database of interviews and book signings from Robert Jordan, Brandon Sanderson and the rest of Team Jordan.

Wheel of Time News

An Hour With Harriet

2012-04-30: I had the great pleasure of speaking with Harriet McDougal Rigney about her life. She's an amazing talent and person and it will take you less than an hour to agree.

The Bell Tolls

2012-04-24: Some thoughts I had during JordanCon4 and the upcoming conclusion of "The Wheel of Time."

Theoryland Community

Members: 7611

Logged In (1): Khoram,

Newest Members:johnroserking, petermorris, johnadanbvv, AndrewHB, jofwu, Salemcat1, Dhakatimesnews, amazingz, Sasooner, Hasib123,

Theoryland Tweets

Forums

Home | Chat | Old Forums(Yuku)


Go Back   Theoryland of the Wheel of Time Forums > WHEEL OF TIME FORUMS > General Wheel of Time Discussion
User Name
Password

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-18-2012, 09:06 AM
instantdeath999 instantdeath999 is offline
Youngling
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 34
instantdeath999 is an unknown quantity at this point
Post Anyone else reading WOT for the first time?

Hi. I would assume that this site is made up of mostly long time Wheel of Time readers. I began Eye of the World a few months ago. I must admit, I wasn't immediately stricken with it, so it took me awhile to finish, only reading a chapter every few days or so. It was entertaining, to be sure, but felt like a simple "Heroes Journey" story, which is what I took it for originally. About 2/3 of the way through, it started to "click", and I zipped through it, particularly after discovering that Rand could channel. Where The Eye of the World took me about two months of on-and-off reading to finish, I finished The Great Hunt in a little over a week.

The fact that I started Wheel of Time so close to the release of the final book is actually a coincidence. I picked up the first book looking for a good fantasy series, and was only vaguely aware that the author had died and someone else was finishing it, though I had no idea when that would be. Now that I know, I've begun to pace myself, to make sure I read fast enough to have them all finished before January, but not to finish them so fast that I have to wait months (like the rest of you ). Pretty difficult, because as you're all probably aware, the series can be quite addicting.

For what it's worth, I'm finding Rand is actually my favorite POV character to read about these days. This is interesting, because I remember in Eye of the World, I was begging to get away from Rand and learn about the other characters. I'm finding his slow descent into madness really fascinating. At the same time, though I find this "new" Rand much more fascinating a character, I also sort of miss the innocent Rand. Guess it's similar to youth in real life; you don't appreciate it while it's there, but miss it once it's gone.

As of now, I'm nearing the end of The Shadow Rising, easily my favorite in the series so far. However, I must say, reading the books and knowing that I will reach an end, knowing I'm not driving full speed towards the inevitable cliffhanger, makes it that much more enjoyable. As much as I love A Song of Ice and Fire, the last two books were somewhat tainted when I read them, because I knew that I would not be able to continue the series until the end for years to come.

That's actually why I started this thread. Do those of you that criticize the series for its pacing believe that it would be less annoying if you were allowed to read the whole series as one the first time through? I haven't reached it yet, obviously, but I know Crossroads of Twilight receives a lot of flak for lack of plot progression.

I suppose this is ultimately what I'm asking. For the long time fans, would you have preferred to have been able to read the entire series as one long novel the first time? Would that have made some of the slower novels in the series, such as Crossroads of Twilight, more enjoyable? Or has following the series over the years, reading and rereading it, even through Robert Jordan's death, only increased your appreciation for the series? Do you think the upcoming release of the final Wheel of Time book would carry nearly the same weight if you hadn't been waiting to read it for 20 years?

Anyway, I realize being on a Wheel of Time fanpage when I haven't even finished the series is incredibly stupid... spoilers abound. I've actually already gotten some majorish events spoiled for me (Rand apparently loses a hand, cleansing of saidin in the ninth book, Moraine both does and doesn't die- don't know what's going on there, and don't want to yet - and other smaller stuff). Damn you internet! My own fault though.

Cheers.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-18-2012, 09:26 AM
Sid Sid is offline
Youngling
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MN, USA
Posts: 64
Sid is a glorious beacon of lightSid is a glorious beacon of lightSid is a glorious beacon of lightSid is a glorious beacon of lightSid is a glorious beacon of lightSid is a glorious beacon of light
Default

First of all, welcome to Theoryland. I'm new here too but a long time reader.

The criticisms came from the waiting, IMO. Jordan was unwilling to compromise quality for speedy book releases, though even he said that Crossroads would have been paced a bit differently if he could do it over again. But when you read them straight through, they flow very well.

I think most people would prefer to always have the next book waiting for them when they see "The end of the Xth book of the Wheel of Time" on that last page, but at the same time, a single read through isn't enough to truly appreciate all the details that Jordan wove into his story. There's foreshadowing everywhere. The best part of the waiting process was to try and find the clues he placed in each book to guess what would happen, and that was rewarding, but to have the next book and know right now... It's a tough call.
__________________
There was only one face in those endless mirrors. His own face. Ba'alzamon's face. One face.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-18-2012, 09:29 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 15,818
GonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by instantdeath999 View Post
... Moraine both does and doesn't die- don't know what's going on there, and don't want to yet ...
Read and find out!

Quote:
Damn you internet! My own fault though.
You're Al Gore?

Welcome to the board, Al. We generally try to keep spoilers out of threads such as yours, since we're all too interested in hearing what theories you can come up with without having had the benefit (and encumbrance) of too much knowledge.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-18-2012, 09:57 AM
instantdeath999 instantdeath999 is offline
Youngling
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 34
instantdeath999 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid View Post
First of all, welcome to Theoryland. I'm new here too but a long time reader.

The criticisms came from the waiting, IMO. Jordan was unwilling to compromise quality for speedy book releases, though even he said that Crossroads would have been paced a bit differently if he could do it over again. But when you read them straight through, they flow very well.

I think most people would prefer to always have the next book waiting for them when they see "The end of the Xth book of the Wheel of Time" on that last page, but at the same time, a single read through isn't enough to truly appreciate all the details that Jordan wove into his story. There's foreshadowing everywhere. The best part of the waiting process was to try and find the clues he placed in each book to guess what would happen, and that was rewarding, but to have the next book and know right now... It's a tough call.
Thanks. Yeah, I don't doubt that being with the series for so many years, especially if you reread it every time a new book releases, would give you a much deeper knowledge and appreciation for it than it would if you just read it all at once. I'll definitely have to give it a reread sometime soon after the last book releases. Heh, to think at one point I thought that Nynaeve would turn out to be a fairly small side character...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
Read and find out!


You're Al Gore?

Welcome to the board, Al. We generally try to keep spoilers out of threads such as yours, since we're all too interested in hearing what theories you can come up with without having had the benefit (and encumbrance) of too much knowledge.
Damn! Did I give myself away already? Gotta work on that...

On Moiraine, I'm really interested in just what happens with her "dying and not dying". Moiraine's definitely one of my favorite characters, so I suppose I'm glad she survives (then again, some characters do serve the plot really well by dying. Old Ben Kenobi might agree with me). I'm assuming it has something to do with balefire (something I've only glimpsed at this point, but know plays a much larger role in the plot in the future). Of course, that would raise the question as to whether it's possible to be erased from existence and be brought back to existence...

Right now, if there's a character I wanted erased from existence, it's Aviendha. Hopefully she becomes a bit less obnoxious (or, at the very least, we get a better reason for why she hates Rand than him supposedly mistreating Elayne).
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-19-2012, 11:50 PM
Great Lord of the Dark Great Lord of the Dark is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 261
Great Lord of the Dark is a name known to allGreat Lord of the Dark is a name known to allGreat Lord of the Dark is a name known to allGreat Lord of the Dark is a name known to allGreat Lord of the Dark is a name known to allGreat Lord of the Dark is a name known to allGreat Lord of the Dark is a name known to allGreat Lord of the Dark is a name known to allGreat Lord of the Dark is a name known to all
Default Lucky You!

I've tried rereading at a constant pace to test my reaction to the slow books, and I've found they are just fine. Jordan deliberately ups the pace, and drops it as the story needs. It can't be all intensity all the time. Crossroads of Twilight is the eye of the hurricane, the calm between two big storms.

Waiting for books gave time to study them, theorize, debate, and meet some awesome people at this site. I think the Theoryland experience changed many people's lives for the better. I wouldn't want to have missed it. Reading the books straight through is pretty rewarding too, but even on a reread there is no way to follow the subtleties of the third-tier characters. That takes 4 rereads, actually.

The characters you hate and love generally stay hated and loved as the series goes on. Satisfactory explanations for their foibles are given. You don't like them much better, but they are quite well developed and diverse.

Rand has always been a favorite of mine.

Enjoy the series!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-20-2012, 07:52 AM
Figbiscuit's Avatar
Figbiscuit Figbiscuit is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: West Yorkshire, England
Posts: 861
Figbiscuit has a brilliant futureFigbiscuit has a brilliant futureFigbiscuit has a brilliant futureFigbiscuit has a brilliant futureFigbiscuit has a brilliant futureFigbiscuit has a brilliant futureFigbiscuit has a brilliant futureFigbiscuit has a brilliant futureFigbiscuit has a brilliant futureFigbiscuit has a brilliant futureFigbiscuit has a brilliant future
Default

In the past couple of years I've been instrumental in introducing three people to WoT, and have always told them I do not envy them being able to read the series straight through. As was said earlier, having to wait two years for each book (and four in the case of Knife of Dreams) created so much chance for speculation and theorising, giving the reader chance to formulate ideas and giving immense satisfaction when you find out whether you were correct (or, to be fair, more like ten years for some of the theories!)

Although I didn't participate on TL for most of the series, and have never really theorised much on here, one of the things I loved about finding this website was that there were people out there just like me, thinking exactly the same thoughts as me about this series of books.
__________________
Save the Earth. It's the only planet with chocolate.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-20-2012, 10:29 AM
Boli Boli is offline
Youngling
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 86
Boli is just really niceBoli is just really niceBoli is just really niceBoli is just really nice
Default

Actually I read CoT recently during my slower re-through an I actually found the book fascinating.. as intricate as the earlier and later books.

I remember reading it the first time around and being entirely disappointed but remember from WH to KoD (when the main plot starts up again) was a wait of 5 years. and a prequel book released in the middle (which was far more interesting at the time).

If I read through them all at a steady rate (as I am doing now) it is far more interesting; although I'll admit that WH and CoT should have really been merged together.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-20-2012, 10:33 AM
Terez's Avatar
Terez Terez is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Corn
Posts: 21,127
Terez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Terez
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Figbiscuit View Post
In the past couple of years I've been instrumental in introducing three people to WoT, and have always told them I do not envy them being able to read the series straight through. As was said earlier, having to wait two years for each book (and four in the case of Knife of Dreams) created so much chance for speculation and theorising, giving the reader chance to formulate ideas and giving immense satisfaction when you find out whether you were correct (or, to be fair, more like ten years for some of the theories!)

Although I didn't participate on TL for most of the series, and have never really theorised much on here, one of the things I loved about finding this website was that there were people out there just like me, thinking exactly the same thoughts as me about this series of books.
I feel the same way, but I'm actually glad I didn't start reading it way back in the day. The theorizing has been fun, but 20 years of it? Eh, screw it, I have nothing to show for those years anyway...
__________________
Qui nos rodunt confundantur, et cum iustis non scribantur.
@Terez27
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-05-2012, 10:44 AM
instantdeath999 instantdeath999 is offline
Youngling
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 34
instantdeath999 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

So... I hear it's normal to really hate Elayne around the end of Lord of Chaos? I hear (and really hope) she gets better as the series goes on... well, I haven't exactly disliked her before this, but she's become insufferable in LOC. And I say that as someone who considers Nynaeve a favorite.

I'll just throw a random thought out there: I don't know if I like the idea of it being possible to break a thirteen Aes Sedai link or not. I literally just got past the part (LOC spoilers) where Rand is kidnapped, though won't be able to pick it back up until a bit later tonight (argh). Part of me likes the idea that, no matter how powerful Rand or any channeler gets, there's something that can always trump him, so that no one becomes overpowered... on the other, Rand breaking the shield would be quite a Crowning Moment of Awesome. We shall see...

From the E-book cover, I imagine Perrin is going to attack the Aes Sedai and free Rand, which is all kinds of awesome.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-05-2012, 01:57 PM
WinespringBrother's Avatar
WinespringBrother WinespringBrother is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,889
WinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant futureWinespringBrother has a brilliant future
Send a message via AIM to WinespringBrother
Default

I find that theorizing and discussing the books has definitely enhanced my appreciation for them (in less than 2 months, I will have been posting on TL for 10 years) so I don't have any envy of you not having to wait, despite the fact that the waiting has been tough at times - even now, 3 months until AMOL seems a LONG TIME! But then again, that give you enough time to finish up and join the final round of theorizing (if you hurry up, that is!) It probably took me 2 months to do my first read-through (up to Winters' Heart at the time).

I am currently about halfway through TEOTW, and always notice and/or look for different details on each re-read due to the amazing depth and attention that RJ and BS gave to the series.
__________________
Mera'Daghain M'hael

"Oh, y'all [Theorylanders] are awesome with awesome sauce, but you ask a lot of tricky questions. I had to watch myself with you guys." - Maria

"I need to RAFO more things, I'm not being very Robert Jordan..." - Brandon
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-05-2012, 03:33 PM
instantdeath999 instantdeath999 is offline
Youngling
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 34
instantdeath999 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default ericsia markham

Oh, I'm definitely kicking it into high gear. Let's put it this way... I have around 90 pages of Lord of Chaos to go, and I started it about seven days ago. That's quite a speed improvement over my pattern for the first few books, since I really didn't want to rush them (but then I realized how soon it was until the last one comes out). One reason I'm reading this one so quickly is because early on I was spoiled that Rand gets captured by Aes Sedai in this one... I don't know if you've ever been spoiled for something like that, but my reaction in that case is always to want to reach the spoiler so I can feel like I can look ahead and not know what happens again.

I'll probably need to slow down a little bit after LOC, honestly. The Shadow Rising took awhile, due to me being busy, but The Fires of Heaven took a little over a week, as Lord of Chaos is. I'm hoping to finish Towers of Midnight very shortly before the last one comes out.

I might actually play the Wheel of Time video game for good measure
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-15-2012, 10:37 AM
harleyquinn321 harleyquinn321 is offline
Youngling
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1
harleyquinn321 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Hi!

It's my first time reading the series

My husband has tried getting me to read them for the past 5 years and I'm finally getting around to it. I have just finished the Crown of Swords.

He and his best friend are finishing their sixth (!) read through of the series and it's actually been a lot of fun--date nights have consisted of nothing but WoT theorizing and speculating. I am proud to say I have brought up some theories that he, in his 15+ years of reading and re-reading, hasnít thought of!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-15-2012, 11:37 AM
Davian93's Avatar
Davian93 Davian93 is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 20,076
Davian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond reputeDavian93 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

6th reread?


Amateurs.
__________________
Bonded to Brita

"We caught them in an alley on skid row in downtown Philly and brought them down with Uzi's and dogs. I beat the shit out of one of the guys for resisting arrest. After that, I went home, fried up some tofu with strawberry preserves and melon sticky rice, laid down on the couch with my snuggie and ate rose petals in sweet daisy wine sauce and watched Mamma Mia on DVD and then cried myself to sleep."

Theoryland: Just Some Crazy In A Pot
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-15-2012, 03:12 PM
Lupusdeusest's Avatar
Lupusdeusest Lupusdeusest is offline
Elder
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The Rainshower Coast
Posts: 552
Lupusdeusest has much to be proud ofLupusdeusest has much to be proud ofLupusdeusest has much to be proud ofLupusdeusest has much to be proud ofLupusdeusest has much to be proud ofLupusdeusest has much to be proud ofLupusdeusest has much to be proud ofLupusdeusest has much to be proud ofLupusdeusest has much to be proud ofLupusdeusest has much to be proud ofLupusdeusest has much to be proud of
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
6th reread?


Amateurs.
IKR. You don't get points until 30...
__________________
The Broken Wolf - Officially Better Than Comics

"Yeah, but obviously the Great Serpent doesn't have an actual corpse which would be of any help in strangling Rand al'Thor; for a start, if there was an actual serpent encircling the world, it would be monumentally huge, and trying to strangle someone with it would lead more to a sort of crushing." - Zombie Sammael

Selective Necrophiliac
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-16-2012, 03:55 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 15,818
GonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond reputeGonzoTheGreat has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Nitpick: for the last book, a tenth reread would be fairly good already.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-16-2012, 12:12 PM
suttree's Avatar
suttree suttree is offline
Youngling
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 544
suttree has a brilliant futuresuttree has a brilliant futuresuttree has a brilliant futuresuttree has a brilliant futuresuttree has a brilliant futuresuttree has a brilliant futuresuttree has a brilliant futuresuttree has a brilliant futuresuttree has a brilliant futuresuttree has a brilliant futuresuttree has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
Nitpick: for the last book, a tenth reread would be fairly good already.
For ToM? Anyone who can make it through that mess more than twice has my admiration...
__________________
"Waves are the ultimate illusion. They come out of nowhere, instantaneously materialize, and just as quickly they break and vanish. Chasing after such fleeting mirages is a complete wast of time. That is what I choose to do with my life." - Miki Dora
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-16-2012, 07:09 PM
Terez's Avatar
Terez Terez is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Corn
Posts: 21,127
Terez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Terez
Default

I couldn't. Made it about halfway through the reread, but on the tail of TGS it was just too much.
__________________
Qui nos rodunt confundantur, et cum iustis non scribantur.
@Terez27
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-16-2012, 08:46 PM
Sid Sid is offline
Youngling
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MN, USA
Posts: 64
Sid is a glorious beacon of lightSid is a glorious beacon of lightSid is a glorious beacon of lightSid is a glorious beacon of lightSid is a glorious beacon of lightSid is a glorious beacon of light
Default

I did switch to audiobooks for the full 're-read' on ToM, because I had to keep setting the book down.
__________________
There was only one face in those endless mirrors. His own face. Ba'alzamon's face. One face.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-19-2012, 11:35 PM
instantdeath999 instantdeath999 is offline
Youngling
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 34
instantdeath999 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Interesting to hear, I had heard that the latest two were some of the more acclaimed of the series, at least of the second half.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-19-2012, 11:56 PM
Terez's Avatar
Terez Terez is offline
Hero of the Horn
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Corn
Posts: 21,127
Terez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond reputeTerez has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Terez
Default

It depends on how you read the books.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ
There are a lot of layers—everything is an onion. And we're talking almost a four-dimensional onion here. Any particular point that you look at—almost any particular point—has layers to it. It's one of the interesting things to me, is how much can I layer things without making it too complicated. It's quite possible for somebody to read these books as pure adventure, and I actually have twelve-year-old fans who do that. I was surprised to find that I had twelve-year-old fans, but I do and they read it just like that. Other people spend quite a lot of time discussing the layering, and it's fun for me to do.
For the first group, the increased pace of the last couple of books is an improvement. Whether or not that can be attributed to Brandon is debatable. For the second group...
__________________
Qui nos rodunt confundantur, et cum iustis non scribantur.
@Terez27
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.