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  #1  
Old 02-06-2015, 03:30 AM
Morelikeunwisewoman Morelikeunwisewoman is offline
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Hello!

I will post my questions in this topic if that is ok?

I don't want to be annoying people with silly questions or stuff that everyone else already knows.

I know I'm late to the party but I only started reading Wheel of Time books a few years ago.
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  #2  
Old 02-06-2015, 03:53 AM
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Ask and you will be answered.
Sometimes you'll even get multiple contradictory answers, and, if you're lucky, you may get a single internally contradictory answer. But in general, the people on this board can't (or won't, whatever) avoid answering questions.
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  #3  
Old 02-06-2015, 06:05 AM
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Ask and you will be answered.
Sometimes you'll even get multiple contradictory answers, and, if you're lucky, you may get a single internally contradictory answer. But in general, the people on this board can't (or won't, whatever) avoid answering questions.
I both agree and disagree with this response...externally.
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Old 02-06-2015, 07:39 AM
Morelikeunwisewoman Morelikeunwisewoman is offline
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Only got a five min break and won't be able to check this til monday so I will try a couple of burning questions:

1. I loved "the Great Hunt" and really enjoyed the dark prophecy about Isam on the walls in fal dara. I then found Slayer to be a little underwhelming

Did we ever get a definitive explanation of slayers origins? was it similar to Rand and moridin at the end? I don't think it is because of the different looks in Tel aran rhiod and real world but I really want to know....

2. The Sea folk- Was that storyline kinda dropped? And what was the significance of giving them the land/dock in Caemlyn? It felt like a huge thing reading it but it kinda went nowhere?

3.And my last for now is a more general one-I only found out RJ had passed long after the fact. It happened before I started on the books even. I enjoyed the last few books but i didn't enjoy androl. He felt tacked on and "gary stu" ish. Am I the only one??

I have tonnes more if its ok?
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  #5  
Old 02-06-2015, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Morelikeunwisewoman View Post
Only got a five min break and won't be able to check this til monday so I will try a couple of burning questions:

1. I loved "the Great Hunt" and really enjoyed the dark prophecy about Isam on the walls in fal dara. I then found Slayer to be a little underwhelming

Did we ever get a definitive explanation of slayers origins? was it similar to Rand and moridin at the end? I don't think it is because of the different looks in Tel aran rhiod and real world but I really want to know....

2. The Sea folk- Was that storyline kinda dropped? And what was the significance of giving them the land/dock in Caemlyn? It felt like a huge thing reading it but it kinda went nowhere?

3.And my last for now is a more general one-I only found out RJ had passed long after the fact. It happened before I started on the books even. I enjoyed the last few books but i didn't enjoy androl. He felt tacked on and "gary stu" ish. Am I the only one??

I have tonnes more if its ok?
Androl? I block him from my memory. It didn't happen.
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  #6  
Old 02-06-2015, 07:50 AM
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1. Slayer was some kind of combination of Isam (Lan's cousin) and Luc (Rand's uncle), baked together by the DO, Ishamael, or those two together. I don't think we ever found out whether Isam could also return in his body to the real world, but we do know that Luc could appear both there and in TAR.

2. The Sea Folk might have needed another book or two to flesh out their side of things a bit more. But, as you noticed, RJ died before he could get around to that. I don't think he'd planned it that way.

3. You are definitely not the only one. My own view of Androl is "meh, not really a good character"; that probably makes me one of his most ardent supporters.

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I have tonnes more if its ok?
Are those metric tonnes, or some weird imperial unit?
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  #7  
Old 02-06-2015, 08:28 AM
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Androl? I block him from my memory. It didn't happen.
I just tell myself it was all Sanderson. Freaking Androl felt like he came right out of a cheesy summer camp movie.

You know Unwise, if you have time, there are a few rather long threads worth reading through. The Ask thread is a good start, and links to a number of daughter threads.

And I wouldn't mind giving you a rundown of my (disproved) Taim theory. I'd love some new eyes, a fresh perspective.
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  #8  
Old 02-06-2015, 11:59 AM
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The Sea Folk/land grab thing was actually quite interesting. Ideas about the magnitude of giving "others" access to land and rights to WATER are pretty topical...and historically dangerous.

Comparisons to Israel at the very least can be made, as well as aboriginals in Australia and Native Americans.

Who OWNS land? Who OWNS water? Can you give me something that I think I already am entitled to based on history? Who had the authority to do so? How would affect the political situations in other countries? How would it affect other cultures who may also feel entitled to things?

The wiki page also touches on something I think many folks have overlooked, which happened LATER in the books. So truly, the story didn't peter out entirely. It just didn't scream Sea Folk:

Quote:
The third term of the agreement is now of critical importance because of the mass suicide of the Amayar. The Atha'an Miere were solely based on the waves and depended upon the land-dwelling Amayar to supply their ports and their ships. Without them, the entire infrastructure of the Atha'an Miere is gone. Land at every city on navigable water will replace this loss to their resources. It also fulfills some of the Jendai Prophecies.
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  #9  
Old 02-06-2015, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Morelikeunwisewoman View Post
2. The Sea folk- Was that storyline kinda dropped? And what was the significance of giving them the land/dock in Caemlyn? It felt like a huge thing reading it but it kinda went nowhere?
The Sea Folk did have a key role to play in the Last Battle. They held back the winds at Thankan'dar using the Bowl of the Winds while Rand battled the Dark One. It just didn't get much attention in the last book because there was so much else to include.
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  #10  
Old 02-06-2015, 12:21 PM
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Another point about giving that land the Sea Folk, was that the land was never his to give away in the first place. It was Elayne's, which gave her another reason to be annoyed at him, which didn't help communications between Andor and the Lord Dragon.
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Old 02-06-2015, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
1. Slayer was some kind of combination of Isam (Lan's cousin) and Luc (Rand's uncle), baked together by the DO, Ishamael, or those two together. I don't think we ever found out whether Isam could also return in his body to the real world, but we do know that Luc could appear both there and in TAR.
Isam was in the Town in the Blight at the beginning of AMoL.
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Old 02-06-2015, 07:14 PM
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Androl? I block him from my memory. It didn't happen.
Basically what she said. Some people will vehemently defend Brandon's addition to the books but there are others (like me, Isabel, etc) that feel it was like nails on a blackboard to read those parts.
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Old 02-06-2015, 07:15 PM
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Another point about giving that land the Sea Folk, was that the land was never his to give away in the first place. It was Elayne's, which gave her another reason to be annoyed at him, which didn't help communications between Andor and the Lord Dragon.
If anything, I'd imagine Elayne could easily wiggle out of it on those grounds...unless there was some part of the Dragon's Peace that made her uphold Rand's previous negotiations.
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Old 02-07-2015, 08:18 AM
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If anything, I'd imagine Elayne could easily wiggle out of it on those grounds...unless there was some part of the Dragon's Peace that made her uphold Rand's previous negotiations.
True, but then the Sea Folk would back down on their promises to Rand. I can't remember off the top of my head what those were, but it would probably upset Rand's plans in some way...
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Old 02-07-2015, 11:03 AM
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3.And my last for now is a more general one-I only found out RJ had passed long after the fact. It happened before I started on the books even. I enjoyed the last few books but i didn't enjoy androl. He felt tacked on and "gary stu" ish. Am I the only one??

I have tonnes more if its ok?
Its more than ok. Although your blind brandon hate is starting to become annoying. Why can't you see how good of a job he did finishing the story? He moved mountains to give us that mediocre set of books full of out of character moments and character "voices" that just never seemed right and you should be greatful to him. Why I believe most TRUE fans recognise Androl as the pinnacle of characrerisation in the WoT-verse. He was all things to all men- and one lucky woman.

P.s writing that made me wonder- is seeker around here anymore?
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Old 02-08-2015, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by SauceyBlueConfetti View Post
The wiki page also touches on something I think many folks have overlooked, which happened LATER in the books. So truly, the story didn't peter out entirely. It just didn't scream Sea Folk:

Quote:
The third term of the agreement is now of critical importance because of the mass suicide of the Amayar. The Atha'an Miere were solely based on the waves and depended upon the land-dwelling Amayar to supply their ports and their ships. Without them, the entire infrastructure of the Atha'an Miere is gone. Land at every city on navigable water will replace this loss to their resources. It also fulfills some of the Jendai Prophecies.
There are many things we don't know about the Sea Folk at the end of the series (as about many of the nations); for example, I wonder how many Windfinders survived the Last Battle? Anyway, I hadn't thought much about the impact of losing the Amayar on the Sea Folk in terms of trade and their basic livelihood before, but I think the WoT Wiki overstates the problem just a bit.

I went back to the BWB and read the section on the Sea Folk and Amayar, and the BWB notes that the Sea Folk clans operate their own ports on the Sea Folk islands. In addition, they have their own dry docks and ship-building facilities; the crews for each ship oversee the construction. While the Amayar occasionally work at these facilities, they are mostly run by the Sea Folk themselves.

What the Sea Folk did lose financially is the porcelain and glass trade, since the Amayar made those things, but the Sea Folk and Amayar really didn't trade with each other for other goods.
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Old 02-08-2015, 06:28 PM
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Its more than ok. Although your blind brandon hate is starting to become annoying. Why can't you see how good of a job he did finishing the story? He moved mountains to give us that mediocre set of books full of out of character moments and character "voices" that just never seemed right and you should be greatful to him. Why I believe most TRUE fans recognise Androl as the pinnacle of characrerisation in the WoT-verse. He was all things to all men- and one lucky woman.

P.s writing that made me wonder- is seeker around here anymore?
Brandon did a fine job in difficult circumstances. Anyone who claims more or less is wrong.

With regards to Androl, as I and others have said before, I enjoyed the fact that the Androl/Pevara storyline essentially gave us a "through-line" of sorts in the final book, making it feel complete in and of itself rather than "just" the final part of the series. Others did not enjoy it for the same reason. I think everyone would rather have had more Logain.
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Old 02-09-2015, 04:01 AM
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Its more than ok. Although your blind brandon hate is starting to become annoying. Why can't you see how good of a job he did finishing the story? He moved mountains to give us that mediocre set of books full of out of character moments and character "voices" that just never seemed right and you should be greatful to him. Why I believe most TRUE fans recognise Androl as the pinnacle of characrerisation in the WoT-verse. He was all things to all men- and one lucky woman.

P.s writing that made me wonder- is seeker around here anymore?
I don't hate Brandon. I agree with the next poster with the creepy avatar...

And thank you guys for answering my questions. I had no idea the sea folk issue was so important. I am a little sad we didn't get a proper explanation of slayer though...

When I am on Lunch later I will ask more.

And that TV series thing sounds hilariously bad.

Oops. wrong thread
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Old 02-09-2015, 05:03 AM
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I went back to the BWB and read the section on the Sea Folk and Amayar, and the BWB notes that the Sea Folk clans operate their own ports on the Sea Folk islands. In addition, they have their own dry docks and ship-building facilities; the crews for each ship oversee the construction. While the Amayar occasionally work at these facilities, they are mostly run by the Sea Folk themselves.
I don't know about you, but when I make a ship that is supposed to be sea worthy (especially one that would have to carry me) then I prefer to use something more substantial than wishes.

Assuming they have wooden boats*, they would need to get a lot of wood for building those things. That wood could be imported, in principle, but transporting massive amounts of lumber across the sea isn't a very effective business model. It would make more sense to get the wood from the locals, who can harvest it on the island and then float it down the rivers.
Furthermore, those ship builders probably will have to eat now and then. Getting that food from the locals instead of having to import it from Cairhien would be the more practical solution.

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Oops. wrong thread
That has happened on occasion to others too.

* Boats, ships, whatever. They're all glorified rafts, when you take the long view.
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Old 02-10-2015, 04:45 AM
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Hey Guys,

couldn't get on yesterday, I was rushed at work.

I have a question about Sammael- Did he know the dangers of Shadar Logoth when he went there(he had been imprisoned a long time) and did mashadar kill him? Or was he absorbed? And if he was absorbed, did mashadar have his powers then?
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