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  #1  
Old 09-20-2015, 12:58 PM
Sukoto Sukoto is offline
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Default Are Muslims fit to be President?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0RK0ND20150920

I am not asking the question for myself. A person's religion should not matter, and doesn't most of the time, when it comes to public service. But Rand Paul did bring up a good point that illustrates how many in this country will never vote for a Muslim for President because it is a fact that we were attacked by a group of Muslims in 2001.

If anything, this just means that Carson's candidacy (if it could ever have been called that) is over.
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Old 09-20-2015, 02:21 PM
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Old 09-20-2015, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sukoto View Post
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0RK0ND20150920

I am not asking the question for myself. A person's religion should not matter, and doesn't most of the time, when it comes to public service. But Rand Paul did bring up a good point that illustrates how many in this country will never vote for a Muslim for President because it is a fact that we were attacked by a group of Muslims in 2001.

If anything, this just means that Carson's candidacy (if it could ever have been called that) is over.
Unfit, obviously not. Unlikely to be elected president at present? Yes. In ten years? Or thirty? It's highly unlikely that the country would have elected a black man president thirty years ago. Situations evolve, but saying unfit seems an obvious pandering to the conservative audience. So to answer your other question, no this won't hurt, and certainly won't end Carson's chances. At least not with Republican primary voters. Hurt his chances in the general if he became the candidate? Maybe, but he would be a long shot in the general regardless.

Keep in mind, the type of crowd for whom that comment about Muslims applied would likely feel the same way, if not more strongly, about electing an agnostic or atheist.

Pew actually does a poll on this stuff. Here's a Salon article about the poll on mistrust of Muslims and Atheists from last year.

http://www.salon.com/2014/07/21/the_...slims_partner/

Quote:
When it comes to politics, Republicans really hate atheists, which they ranked at 34. The only group Republicans hate more are Muslims, which they ranked one point lower at 33.

Among Republicans evangelicals soared, ranking 71, a full 4 points over the second spot held by Jews.

Democrats were slightly more favorable to atheists, but not by much. They ranked them 46, pushing Mormons under at 44 (thanks, Romney), but were slightly more trusting of Muslims at 47.

Why is hatred for atheists so universal? This is far from the first poll to suggest that atheists are the most hated religious group (or non-religious group) in the US. A 2011 poll found that US citizens trusted atheists on par with rapists. With this kind of fervent hatred and distrust, what does the future hold for a group so hated in their own country?

The answer may be in the age demographic. Atheism is less favorable the higher you get in the age bracket, but the silver lining for atheists is they are actually ranking much better in the younger bracket. So the answer for the future of atheist acceptance may simply be time.

Last edited by Kimon; 09-20-2015 at 04:17 PM.
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Old 09-20-2015, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimon View Post
Unfit, obviously not. Unlikely to be elected president at present? Yes. In ten years? Or thirty? It's highly unlikely that the country would have elected a black man president thirty years ago. Situations evolve, but saying unfit seems an obvious pandering to the conservative audience. So to answer your other question, no this won't hurt, and certainly won't end Carson's chances. At least not with Republican primary voters.
I believe Sukoto is one of those. Maybe not, but my recollection is that he leans Republican/conservative. But he's a Mormon, so he understands religious discrimination better than most Christians (despite their victim/martyr complex).
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Old 09-20-2015, 04:31 PM
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I believe Sukoto is one of those. Maybe not, but my recollection is that he leans Republican/conservative. But he's a Mormon, so he understands religious discrimination better than most Christians (despite their victim/martyr complex).
Interesting. Based on the location description I always assumed that Sukoto was an Aussie, though in retrospect I think they reverse the naming of the seasons to fit with realities in the Southern Hemisphere. So, where in America is summer the coldest season? San Francisco?
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Old 09-20-2015, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimon View Post
Interesting. Based on the location description I always assumed that Sukoto was an Aussie, though in retrospect I think they reverse the naming of the seasons to fit with realities in the Southern Hemisphere. So, where in America is summer the coldest season? San Francisco?
California. I forget exactly where.
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Old 09-20-2015, 05:59 PM
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Didn't we have this same argument 50 years ago when JFK ran for president?
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Old 09-20-2015, 06:48 PM
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I think it'd be great if a Muslim became present. The sudden and immediate removal of all references to religion and the complete separation of church and state in the US would be awesome.
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Old 09-20-2015, 07:21 PM
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Ben Carson disgusts me as does even asking this question.

What an utter joke.
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Old 09-20-2015, 07:23 PM
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I think it'd be great if a Muslim became present. The sudden and immediate removal of all references to religion and the complete separation of church and state in the US would be awesome.
I hope Obama has a press conference on his final day and goes "You know what, you all were right, I'm a practicing Muslim...oh, and I was born in Kenya"

The Butthurt on the Right would be epic.
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Old 09-20-2015, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Terez View Post
I believe Sukoto is one of those. Maybe not, but my recollection is that he leans Republican/conservative. But he's a Mormon, so he understands religious discrimination better than most Christians (despite their victim/martyr complex).
I would never call myself a Republican, let alone register as one. Same goes for the Democratic Party. I consider myself moderately conservative.

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Interesting. Based on the location description I always assumed that Sukoto was an Aussie, though in retrospect I think they reverse the naming of the seasons to fit with realities in the Southern Hemisphere. So, where in America is summer the coldest season? San Francisco?
Oops. Forgot to change that when I moved last year. I did live on the California coast, near Monterey. Summer was often colder than winter there (think 55 degrees instead of 60). Now I live in Eastern Washington, near Spokane. Summer is definitely NOT cold here. I thought I was going to die this summer.
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Old 09-20-2015, 10:17 PM
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Unfit, obviously not. Unlikely to be elected president at present? Yes. In ten years? Or thirty? It's highly unlikely that the country would have elected a black man president thirty years ago. Situations evolve, but saying unfit seems an obvious pandering to the conservative audience. So to answer your other question, no this won't hurt, and certainly won't end Carson's chances. At least not with Republican primary voters. Hurt his chances in the general if he became the candidate? Maybe, but he would be a long shot in the general regardless.
It's not the fact that Carson believes this that will end his candidacy. It's the fact he said it out loud.
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Old 09-20-2015, 10:32 PM
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It's not the fact that Carson believes this that will end his candidacy. It's the fact he said it out loud.
Leaving aside the unlikely potential for observable thoughtcrime, even the fact that he said it aloud seems unlikely to be a problem for a Republican. If he was running in the Democratic Primary? Yes. But the Republican? Yes, some Republicans will find it offensive, and Lindsey Graham for instance publicly rebuked the statement. Yet Lindsey Graham can't seem to get any traction in this primary, while Trump and Carson are stealing all the attention. This just seems likely to please, or at least elicit no reaction for more Republican primary voters than it will alienate.
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Old 09-21-2015, 03:57 AM
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Didn't we have this same argument 50 years ago when JFK ran for president?
Nah, that particular argument is older; distrust of Papists predates your Civil War. By the time JFK became president, your electorate had grown up enough to prefer a Papist mafioso over any atheist (ie. Commie). Mind you, the very idea of having a black president would've been ludicrous at the time, so it seems as if predicting things, even with hindsight, isn't always easy.
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Old 09-21-2015, 12:00 PM
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It's not the fact that Carson believes this that will end his candidacy. It's the fact he said it out loud.
This probably actually helped him with the GOP Base...he never had a shot at the Presidency anyway regardless of this comment.
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Old 09-21-2015, 12:06 PM
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Here's a great analysis of the issue from a political election blog:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electoral-Vote.com
Several Republicans have either outright rejected or are uncomfortable with the idea of a Muslim Commander in Chief. Ben Carson has stated and then repeated his belief that Islam is not consistent with the Constitution. Gov. John Kasich (R-OH) and Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) have said the possibility makes them uncomfortable. In contrast, DNC chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz said "Of course a Muslim, or any other American citizen, can run for President."

The Republican Party is in a bind on this subject. The national Republican leadership is focused on winning elections, which means having a big tent. However, presidential candidates who are aiming like a laser at narrow slices of the primary electorate or members of the House who come from lopsided conservative districts have a completely different message, which is often in conflict with the national strategy. This problem is accentuated when everyone sees polls showing that 43% to 54% of Republicans think President Obama is a Muslim and only 45% say they would ever vote for a Muslim. The leadership knows this is nonsense, but telling your own base that what they deeply believe is all wrong is not a strategy for remaining in the leadership for long.
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Old 09-22-2015, 07:14 AM
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That would be so stupid.
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Old 09-22-2015, 07:32 AM
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That would be so stupid.
Stupidity gets you votes, pointing out voter stupidity costs you votes. Guess what many politicians choose to do?
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Old 09-28-2015, 11:48 AM
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The issue is that Ben Carson isn't even a politician!

I honestly believe that he would have gotten a much bigger bump by being blunt and saying "you know what, anyone can be President and it is actually unconstitutional (not fake unconstitutional like many right-wing complaints) to say otherwise. To even pretend that one particular religion would be an impediment to doing a good job as compared to another is bigoted and I'd prefer if you didn't vote for me if you feel that way". Same goes for Trump when confronted with that question.

I have a feeling even batshit crazy Republicans would respond to someone explaining that in a forceful manner.
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