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  #1  
Old 10-14-2015, 08:43 AM
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Default Dem Debate...

So...it was a lot more substantive than any of the GOP debates. They actually discussed these weird things called issues and had legit opinions on them as opposed to the 5 year old level of the GOP debate. My very brief takeaways are as follows:

Hilldog: Came off the most experienced and well spoken. She got beat up a bit on her support of Wall Street but she was the clear winner last night.

Bernie: Came off very strong for income inequality and social issues, but was flailing a bit on foreign policy. Overall, he kept his personality in check (he can come off as an angry old man...think Larry David's Steinbrenner impression on Seinfeld). It helped that Jim Webb acted like a 7 year old being sent to bed without supper for most of the night. He didn't lose last night and he solidified himself as the #2 candidate in this race last night. The real race is Hillary vs. Bernie...the other 3 shouldn't even bother.

O'Malley: Boring...not a strong performance at all...maybe he's setting himself up to be a VP candidate? He lost in that he did nothing to impress anyone last night.

Webb: Came off as an angry old man-child. Just embarrassing performance all around and he lost big time. I'd be shocked if he's around for the next debate in a month.

Chafee: Um...why were you there exactly? Just awful. Just an awful, awful performance and one of the most embarrassing debate performances I can recall. His answers on the Patriot Act and Glass Steagall were very bad. I wouldn't be surprised to see him drop out of the race in the next few days. Also, why is Steve Doocy running for the Dem ticket anyway?
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  #2  
Old 10-14-2015, 09:08 AM
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One thing i will say I am disappointed by were the questions...I never got to find out the answers to the important issues facing our country like:

1. Who would they put on the $10 bill?

2. What would they want their Secret Service code name to be?

3. What does God say to them when they're alone?


I had to hear about stupid things like income inequality, foreign policy issues, college tuition, etc.
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Old 10-14-2015, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
They actually discussed these weird things called issues and had legit opinions on them as opposed to the 5 year old level of the GOP debate.
...
It helped that Jim Webb acted like a 7 year old being sent to bed without supper for most of the night. He didn't lose last night and he solidified himself as the #2 candidate in this race last night.
...
Webb: Came off as an angry old man-child. Just embarrassing performance all around and he lost big time. I'd be shocked if he's around for the next debate in a month.
In favour of Webb: he's lots more mature than any of the GOP candidates, apparently. And that is who he will have to face in the real election; this is just the practice round before the real game.
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Old 10-14-2015, 11:42 AM
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Webb: Came off as an angry old man-child. Just embarrassing performance all around and he lost big time. I'd be shocked if he's around for the next debate in a month.
His closing remarks - about the worst enemy he has made, and his comment about killing a guy in war was disturbing.

The answers that the others gave tended to say everything about the differences between the dems and the republicans - nra, wall street, the pharmaceutical industry. I didn't particularly care for Hillary's inclusion of Iran, but other than that she had the smartest answer to that question - especially as she listed all the usual suspects, and then included the republicans.

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Chafee: Um...why were you there exactly?
He'll probably drop out soon. I have to imagine that he was hoping that his vote against the Iraq War all those years ago, back when he was still a Republican, would carry more weight than it has. More than anything else, Chafee is just an example of what was - a time when moderate Republicans still existed.
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Old 10-14-2015, 01:21 PM
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I missed it (was at a very depressing Mets game), but to the point:

None of this is about creating a race, or tension. Bernie Sanders, etc... they're showing up so they can shape the platform Hillary is going to have to take. Sanders gets up there and talks about income inequality, and all of a sudden Hillary can't ignore it anymore. There is almost no chance anyone else wins the nomination. It's all but locked up.

That being said, Hillary is basically a political weather vane so its helpful to get people with real convictions up there to bring up important, relevant issues.
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Old 10-14-2015, 02:25 PM
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I missed it (was at a very depressing Mets game), but to the point:

None of this is about creating a race, or tension. Bernie Sanders, etc... they're showing up so they can shape the platform Hillary is going to have to take. Sanders gets up there and talks about income inequality, and all of a sudden Hillary can't ignore it anymore. There is almost no chance anyone else wins the nomination. It's all but locked up.

That being said, Hillary is basically a political weather vane so its helpful to get people with real convictions up there to bring up important, relevant issues.
Barring a shock, I think the ticket will end up being Clinton/O'Malley and Bernie will continue being my Senator...which I'm fine with.

Bernie cant win a general election...way too Left for that sadly. Clinton/O'Malley or even Clinton/Julian Castro (a rising Dem star) will be the ticket I bet.


And more and more I think the GOP will be Marco Rubio and whatever mouthbreather he comes up with for his VP.
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Old 10-14-2015, 02:30 PM
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On a serious note, I just want Bernie to win because he looks like a mad scientist, and when it comes to selecting a president, how they look should be considered above all else.
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Old 10-14-2015, 05:25 PM
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If I could vote in the USA elections, my vote would go to sam. He talks about the really important issues.
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Old 10-14-2015, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
Barring a shock, I think the ticket will end up being Clinton/O'Malley and Bernie will continue being my Senator...which I'm fine with.

Bernie cant win a general election...way too Left for that sadly. Clinton/O'Malley or even Clinton/Julian Castro (a rising Dem star) will be the ticket I bet.
My bets have been on one or other of the Castro brothers for a long time now.

I couldn't watch any more than 20 minutes of the debate. Hillary made me hate her again, and Bernie was embarrassing.

I will probably stay home in 2016. I don't care if Hillary loses any more. We'll have better candidates in 2020. Whoever wins will be a terrible president, so we might as well allow the Republicans to take the heat for 4 years.
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Old 10-14-2015, 06:17 PM
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I'm legitimately curious to see what happens if the Republicans actually win the White House. I don't think they can, but if they do, and hold on to the Senate (what seats are up?), what happens next? Their leadership knows that 95% of their talking points positions are bullshit, but they've...'appeased' )probably too strong, but something of that flavor) their far right by basically blaming everything on Obama, claiming that they need the White House to enact the more extreme positions. But if they get it? What then?
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Old 10-14-2015, 06:19 PM
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My bets have been on one or other of the Castro brothers for a long time now.

I couldn't watch any more than 20 minutes of the debate. Hillary made me hate her again, and Bernie was embarrassing.

I will probably stay home in 2016. I don't care if Hillary loses any more. We'll have better candidates in 2020. Whoever wins will be a terrible president, so we might as well allow the Republicans to take the heat for 4 years.
Too many Supreme Court seats likely will need to be filled in the next cycle - Ginsburg is 82, Scalia and Kennedy are 79, and Breyer is 77. Even just Ginsburg's seat being filled by a Republican would be disastrous. We need all of those filled with progressives to start to realign the court. This reason, more than any other is why you always vote for the democrat for president, because the consequences are more than just pointless wars and ridiculous tax cuts, it's also the composition of the court.
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Old 10-14-2015, 06:31 PM
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Too many Supreme Court seats likely will need to be filled in the next cycle - Ginsburg is 82, Scalia and Kennedy are 79, and Breyer is 77. Even just Ginsburg's seat being filled by a Republican would be disastrous. We need all of those filled with progressives to start to realign the court. This reason, more than any other is why you always vote for the democrat for president, because the consequences are more than just pointless wars and ridiculous tax cuts, it's also the composition of the court.
This is the kind of argument you make to low-information voters. My opinion is well-considered. I am more concerned about the long term damage Hillary will do to the party. I will not vote for her.
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Old 10-14-2015, 06:49 PM
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This is the kind of argument you make to low-information voters. My opinion is well-considered. I am more concerned about the long term damage Hillary will do to the party. I will not vote for her.
I understand a lack of excitement about Hillary, but long-term damage? Her policies are essentially the same as Bill's. Presidents can cause long term damage internally through tax cuts, as under Reagan and the Younger Bush, or through disastrous wars - like LBJ and the Younger Bush. Or through corruption - like Nixon. But also by their appointments to the Supreme Court. Reagan gave us 30 years (at least) of Scalia. The Elder Bush was mostly a decent president. The only truly awful thing he did? Clarence Thomas. And his son stuck us with likely at least three decades of Roberts and Alito. That will cause more long term damage than his tax cuts, or even than the Iraq War. Citizens United alone dwarfs those disasters.
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Old 10-14-2015, 06:53 PM
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My bets have been on one or other of the Castro brothers for a long time now.

I couldn't watch any more than 20 minutes of the debate. Hillary made me hate her again, and Bernie was embarrassing.

I will probably stay home in 2016. I don't care if Hillary loses any more. We'll have better candidates in 2020. Whoever wins will be a terrible president, so we might as well allow the Republicans to take the heat for 4 years.
So you'd rather give over the entire gov't to the GOP? Are you fucking insane? Do you realize how awful that would be long-term...especially with the SCOTUS appointments that will be coming?
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Old 10-14-2015, 06:54 PM
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This is the kind of argument you make to low-information voters. My opinion is well-considered. I am more concerned about the long term damage Hillary will do to the party. I will not vote for her.
Yeah, this is the mentality that got us 8 years of Dubya...how'd that work out again?
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Old 10-14-2015, 07:38 PM
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So you'd rather give over the entire gov't to the GOP? Are you fucking insane? Do you realize how awful that would be long-term...especially with the SCOTUS appointments that will be coming?
There are always SCOTUS appointments coming. If Hillary were to win, she could easily lose reelection, lose Congress in census year, and hand the White House to the Republicans for 8 years or more.

I think that whoever wins is going to lose reelection; this is the sorriest crop of candidates we've had in a long time. The only person that stands out as being both presidential and a person of character is Rubio, and I disagree with him on almost everything. And he's not the savviest politician.

If Hillary loses then we'll have a Republican president and a much higher chance of retaking congress all the way down the ticket come census time, because opposition politics is the way elections work. And what about handing Congress to the Republicans for 10 more years?

Ginsburg chose not to step down during Obama's term because she didn't believe that the Congress would approve someone who would be as progressive as she is. Scalia may well find himself in the same position under a Republican president.

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Yeah, this is the mentality that got us 8 years of Dubya...how'd that work out again?
It was a different time...and it also worked out that no one was talking in 2004 about the Democrats having held the White House too long. That kind of talk is what starts polarity shifts, where "Democrat" and "Republican" start to mean drastically different things.

I don't believe we are in danger of losing the White House for 8 years this time, as I said above. But 12-year party control has not happened since Reagan/HW, and I don't think Hillary is the right person to personify that kind of long-term party control. HW was not the right person either, but in a very different way.

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I understand a lack of excitement about Hillary, but long-term damage? Her policies are essentially the same as Bill's.
And Bill did a great deal of long term damage to the party in my opinion. He felt it was what had to be done to get the Republicans out of the White House, and maybe he was right, but we're still trying to dig the party out of his concessions to neoliberalism.

Hillary presents a different danger. She is not trying to win back the White House from the Republicans, so concessions to donors are not her primary concern. She comes at a time when demographics favor Democrats, the electoral college favors Democrats, and the chances she will lose are relatively low.

Hillary's potential to damage lies in the fact that her primary guiding principle is ambition. Her judgment is often bad and her ethics are often questionable. And despite being in a position where progressive policies are popular and politically viable, she still holds on to the concessions that her husband was forced to take in order to regain the White House. She no doubt played a large role in the shaping of his thoughts on those matters. She even goes further than he does in terms of hawkishness.

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....Citizens United alone dwarfs those disasters.
I have no confidence that Hillary would nominate anyone who would overturn Citizens United.
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Old 10-14-2015, 08:07 PM
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I think you underestimate the amount of damage the GOP could do if they controlled all 3 branches with the crazies we have now.


Granted, the odds of them keeping the Senate in 2016 are pretty slim, its a massive risk to take. Day 1 would be the elimination of the filibuster followed by the repeal of every single progressive policy of the last 8 years.
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Old 10-14-2015, 08:09 PM
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I think you underestimate the amount of damage the GOP could do if they controlled all 3 branches with the crazies we have now.


Granted, the odds of them keeping the Senate in 2016 are pretty slim, its a massive risk to take. Day 1 would be the elimination of the filibuster followed by the repeal of every single progressive policy of the last 8 years.
Let them dig their grave. I'd rather that than we dig ours.
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Old 10-14-2015, 08:12 PM
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Let them dig their grave. I'd rather that than we dig ours.
I honestly don't think she'd be all that bad. I hate her personally but she'd probably govern from the Center/Center Right which is what the Dems have been since 1992 anyway. The Progressive Wing of the party is Sanders...and he's not even a Democrat anyway.

It'd be far less damaging than any of the GOP options.
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Old 10-14-2015, 08:13 PM
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Davian93 Davian93 is offline
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For the GOP...imagine Kansas or Wisconsin but on a national scale. It would destroy what's left of the middle class.
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Bonded to Brita

"We caught them in an alley on skid row in downtown Philly and brought them down with Uzi's and dogs. I beat the shit out of one of the guys for resisting arrest. After that, I went home, fried up some tofu with strawberry preserves and melon sticky rice, laid down on the couch with my snuggie and ate rose petals in sweet daisy wine sauce and watched Mamma Mia on DVD and then cried myself to sleep."

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