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  #1  
Old 01-08-2016, 05:58 PM
Southpaw2012 Southpaw2012 is offline
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How much more must she do before America wakes up?


http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/08/politi...016/index.html
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  #2  
Old 01-08-2016, 06:08 PM
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You know guys there is one seriously good thing about a republican president: Southpaw won't be able leave his little complaints about the current president around the place.
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  #3  
Old 01-08-2016, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Southpaw2012 View Post
How much more must she do before America wakes up?


http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/08/politi...016/index.html
Much like your other recent thread, wakes up to what? There isn't anything surprising in this article as we've known about these email problems for many months. And while Grassley calls this particularly query "disturbing", it's clear from the article that he hasn't even read it, nor does he, or any of the officials discussing it know for certain whether it was classified, or if Hillary ever even received it into her private email...

Quote:
"It raises a host of serious questions and underscores the importance of the various inquiries into the transmittal of classified information through her non-government email server," said Grassley, who went on to ask: "How long has the State Department been aware of this email? Why is it just now being released? Was her instruction actually carried out? If so, has the FBI opened a criminal inquiry into these circumstances?"

A State Department official declined to comment on Grassley's statement, but told CNN earlier in the day that the department has "no indication at this time that the document being discussed was emailed to her."

"I'm not going to speculate about whether the document being discussed was classified," this official added. "Generally speaking, I can say that just because a document is sent via a secure method doesn't mean that it's classified. Many documents that are created or stored on a secure system are not classified."

A spokesperson for Grassley's office says it is working under the assumption the email was classified, since Clinton's aides would have had other ways to send the document to her if it wasn't, such as through email.
This is the closest we get to a description of what it was about:

Quote:
On June 16, 2011, top Clinton aide Jake Sullivan wrote to Clinton to say she would get "tps" -- presumably short for "talking points" that evening. The subject of the email is redacted so it's not clear what topic these points covered.
Talking points implies that it was intended for dissemination, which would seem to indicate that there was nothing on it that was so sensitive to be worth make such a stink about now. On the other hand, it is redacted. Using her private email was dumb, but it's nothing new.

Hillary isn't a great candidate, but she's still far better than anyone that the Republicans are running.

Last edited by Kimon; 01-08-2016 at 06:35 PM.
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  #4  
Old 01-08-2016, 08:06 PM
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You know guys there is one seriously good thing about a republican president: Southpaw won't be able leave his little complaints about the current president around the place.
Unlike many of you, I don't support or criticize a president or candidate based on political party. I'm a constitutionalist with originalist interpretive thought. You guys support Supreme Court justices for making decisions based on their personal policy preferences while I support Supreme Court justices who follow the Constitution as it was always meant to be interpreted. The ignorance with regards to American founding history is staggering, and our nation is headed down a dangerous path.. But that's okay with many of you, correct? As long as social flings of the day are met, regardless of laws, that's all that matters, right? Big, regulation obsessed government is what we need, correct? Unbelievable.
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Old 01-08-2016, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Southpaw2012 View Post
Unlike many of you, I don't support or criticize a president or candidate based on political party. I'm a constitutionalist with originalist interpretive thought. You guys support Supreme Court justices for making decisions based on their personal policy preferences while I support Supreme Court justices who follow the Constitution as it was always meant to be interpreted. The ignorance with regards to American founding history is staggering, and our nation is headed down a dangerous path.. But that's okay with many of you, correct? As long as social flings of the day are met, regardless of laws, that's all that matters, right? Big, regulation obsessed government is what we need, correct? Unbelievable.
The constitution was not meant to be an unchanging or unchangeable document, hence the amendments. Moreover, if you're going to complain about justices turning against precedent, then you must also ridicule the shift that the conservative justices have made in their recent interpretations of the second amendment, and their break from precedent that allowed for the Citizens United Ruling. This isn't about purity, nor about some fantasy of what the founders intended. It is simply a philosophical struggle. All of the justices are chosen based upon their politics. Not just those on the left. Not just those on the right. All of them. Pretending that isn't the case is silly. You simply don't like the political philosophy of the four, and we disagree with the political philosophy of the other five - especially Scalia's.

Pretending that either you or they hold some originalist high ground in this debate is both ridiculous, and offensive. Without that progress, the original document would still allow for both slavery, and for the denial of the right to vote for all women.
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Old 01-08-2016, 08:54 PM
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Ok, so why don't you suggest a candidate? I mean, with all your "originalist interpretive thought" you have to know someone that will cure what ails the greatest nation on the planet.
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  #7  
Old 01-08-2016, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Southpaw2012 View Post
Unlike many of you, I don't support or criticize a president or candidate based on political party. I'm a constitutionalist with originalist interpretive thought. You guys support Supreme Court justices for making decisions based on their personal policy preferences while I support Supreme Court justices who follow the Constitution as it was always meant to be interpreted. The ignorance with regards to American founding history is staggering, and our nation is headed down a dangerous path.. But that's okay with many of you, correct? As long as social flings of the day are met, regardless of laws, that's all that matters, right? Big, regulation obsessed government is what we need, correct? Unbelievable.
Well I'll be, he actually replied. He ignores the fact that I live in another country and therefore won't be massively affected by USA elections. Indeed the biggest influence is his endless repetition of the same old opinions and alas he is of the opinion that he is going to complain about all presidents of his country no matter what they do.
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  #8  
Old 01-08-2016, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Southpaw2012 View Post
You guys support Supreme Court justices for making decisions based on their personal policy preferences while I support Supreme Court justices who follow the Constitution as it was always meant to be interpreted.
Name one guy that actually does that, instead of just paying lip service to the idea.

And that idea... just how absurd is it? Don't we, rightly, ridicule Aes Sedai in WoT for blindly sticking to age old customs, laws and traditions in the face of staggering social change?

Look, all due respect to the Founding Fathers, but they knew jack about what the world would become. Nor were they so filled with hubris that they thought the laws they wrote would be always valid and valuable to society.

And this is why they provided for ways to modify and amend this document. It borders on insanity to think this country should be beholden to the words and intent of men who lived 3 centuries ago.
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  #9  
Old 01-09-2016, 03:19 AM
GonzoTheGreat GonzoTheGreat is offline
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Originally Posted by Southpaw2012 View Post
You guys support Supreme Court justices for making decisions based on their personal policy preferences while I support Supreme Court justices who follow the Constitution as it was always meant to be interpreted.
That means: racist.

For instance, the 2nd Amendment had two goals:
1. Providing an organised militia (National Guard, now) which could fight against foreign invaders if needed. Generations of Supreme Court Justices have ignored this in favor of their political preferences by pretending that the " being necessary to the security of a free State" clause does not exist.
2. Allowing the white slave owners to have the means to suppress the black population. This is still an ongoing issue, of course, as the current Bundy insurrection shows. If that had been a bunch of armed Black Panther activists instead, then the response would have been very different indeed. As the response would be if a few dozen Native Americans tried to grab back some of the land which the USA officially acknowledged as theirs for eternity.

So, do you want racist judges?
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  #10  
Old 01-09-2016, 04:24 PM
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So, do you want racist judges?
He does.

Does he go to Jordancon?
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Old 01-10-2016, 02:49 PM
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you've convinced me. i'm voting Bernie.



(i really shouldn't feed the trolls, i know, but he's such an adorable little fluffball of hate you just can't help yourself.)
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  #12  
Old 01-11-2016, 12:13 AM
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Trump? Hillary? Any of them? I can't in good conscience bring myself to vote for any of these losers that are running for POTUS. Remember that South Park episode about voting for a giant douche and a turd sandwich? Multiply both of those by ten, and that's about how I feel about each of the candidates.

There is no "right" choice, from what I can see. Right now, it's basically to see which candidate sucks less. Which is a pretty terrible way of going about this whole thing.
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Old 01-11-2016, 12:59 AM
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If I had to choose, I'd vote for Bernie, but I don't think he's a good candidate. I just think Hillary's worse. I'm so angry at the base of the Democratic Party for forcing her on us, turning a blind eye to all her weak spots (and Bill's) and lining up for her coronation. If they weren't so enthusiastic about her, we would have had better competition in this primary, that's for sure. And of course, if the GOP wins the White House, they'll blame all the Democrats who couldn't stomach voting for her. And we'll blame them for lining up.
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Old 01-11-2016, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Southpaw2012 View Post
I'm a constitutionalist with originalist interpretive thought.
Technically, it is impossible to be an "interpretive originalist". If you are an originalist, then the text needs no interpreting. Of course, this also sticks you in an ossified, backwards 18th century mindset, since had we all been Originalists in 1865 then we'd still have slavery.

So thanks for betraying the fundamental dishonesty of all literalists/originalists. You are pro-interpretation, until you disagree with a given point, at which point you hide behind the text as a holy document.
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Old 01-11-2016, 05:17 PM
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If I had to choose, I'd vote for Bernie, but I don't think he's a good candidate. I just think Hillary's worse. I'm so angry at the base of the Democratic Party for forcing her on us, turning a blind eye to all her weak spots (and Bill's) and lining up for her coronation. If they weren't so enthusiastic about her, we would have had better competition in this primary, that's for sure. And of course, if the GOP wins the White House, they'll blame all the Democrats who couldn't stomach voting for her. And we'll blame them for lining up.
I'm with you on Hillary being forced on Dems, but I'm not sure there's a deep bench of qualified candidates waiting out there. Sure some might have gotten scared off by the Hillary machine and said "maybe next time", but not a lot. Down from the top tiers the Dems are currently truly lacking in interesting candidates who may one day be credible Presidential candidates.
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Old 01-11-2016, 06:44 PM
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he's such an adorable little fluffball of hate
I know. I have to meet this creature, see it with my own eyes.
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Old 01-11-2016, 06:58 PM
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I'm with you on Hillary being forced on Dems, but I'm not sure there's a deep bench of qualified candidates waiting out there. Sure some might have gotten scared off by the Hillary machine and said "maybe next time", but not a lot. Down from the top tiers the Dems are currently truly lacking in interesting candidates who may one day be credible Presidential candidates.
Elizabeth Warren would have been the candidate most beloved by the base, but in general, we tend to prefer centrists (like Bill and Hillary), as we prefer winning to purity. There is also the simple fact that only another truly charismatic candidate (like Obama in the last cycle) could have unseated Hillary in the primary. Again, aside from Warren, no such alternative seemed present. Perhaps Cory Booker, but he seems more a VP candidate.
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Old 01-11-2016, 11:02 PM
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Elizabeth Warren would have been the candidate most beloved by the base, but in general, we tend to prefer centrists (like Bill and Hillary), as we prefer winning to purity. There is also the simple fact that only another truly charismatic candidate (like Obama in the last cycle) could have unseated Hillary in the primary. Again, aside from Warren, no such alternative seemed present. Perhaps Cory Booker, but he seems more a VP candidate.
Warren is too clever to enter this race anyway. Even minus Hillary, I suspect Warren would have sat this one out.

Agreed on Booker.
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Old 01-12-2016, 02:58 AM
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Warren is too clever to enter this race anyway. Even minus Hillary, I suspect Warren would have sat this one out.
I'm not so sure about that. I think that Warren could have been convinced to run if Hillary's support hadn't been so overwhelming, if running against her wouldn't have been taken as some kind of uppity betrayal by party loyalists.

I think Warren was, despite all that, still considering running at the time she was invited to visit Hillary at her home in NY. That was almost a year ago, if I recall, when the Draft Warren campaign was really gaining steam. Some kind of deal was made there, and I'm very curious to know what the details were. Perhaps Warren only told Hillary that she was concerned about whether Hillary would be willing to champion her pet issues, because Hillary did step up her hard-on-finance talk around that time. But there might have been an actual position on the table, like Treasury or even SCOTUS.
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Old 01-12-2016, 03:09 AM
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Maybe a new Warren Commission?
Then the Dems could show that their opponents are not the only ones who are capable of engaging in pointless repeat investigations.
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