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  #1  
Old 01-12-2016, 05:23 PM
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Default WTF, Iran...

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/13/wo...crew.html?_r=0

You're not making it any easier for the US to stop treating you like a member of the Axis of Evil. And now even Democrats are talking sanctions.

It really comes down to this:
Quote:
Many American and Middle Eastern officials believe that recent actions by the Iranian Navy against American forces in the Gulf may be intended to embarrass Mr. Zarif and President Hassan Rouhani. The Iranian Revolutionary Guards Corps was responsible for the military side of the nuclear program, and many of its senior officers have objected to the nuclear agreement.
This, along with the many arrests of US citizens and nationals in Iran, are all presumably part of a bullshit hissy fit so the hardliners can save face.

Do they see the price of oil? Do they see what's happening in China? Australia is ******* South Korea is in serious danger, Russia is falling apart at the seams. Germany is in for a year from hell. Even the US won't make it through 2016 unscathed, despite our relatively stable fundamentals.

But sure, play with matches around your crippled, gas-soaked economy.
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  #2  
Old 01-12-2016, 05:37 PM
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From the sounds of it, 2 of our small zodiac type boats ended up beached on one of their protected military islands in the Gulf...due to engine failure on one of them. Our personnel have been detained but will be released briefly.

Kinda sounds like much ado about nothing.
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  #3  
Old 01-12-2016, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unreasoner View Post
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/13/wo...crew.html?_r=0

You're not making it any easier for the US to stop treating you like a member of the Axis of Evil. And now even Democrats are talking sanctions.

It really comes down to this:


This, along with the many arrests of US citizens and nationals in Iran, are all presumably part of a bullshit hissy fit so the hardliners can save face.

Do they see the price of oil? Do they see what's happening in China? Australia is ******* South Korea is in serious danger, Russia is falling apart at the seams. Germany is in for a year from hell. Even the US won't make it through 2016 unscathed, despite our relatively stable fundamentals.

But sure, play with matches around your crippled, gas-soaked economy.
Seems like much ado about nothing. Their continued refusal to release, or just deport, Jason Rezaian is a real issue. But the brief holding of ten sailors who wandered, maybe intentionally, into Iranian waters? Yeah, unless they renege and don't release them, I honestly don't care.

On a more positive note, Iran also recently did this...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-35285095

Quote:
Iran has removed the core of its Arak heavy-water nuclear reactor and filled it with cement, according to the country's Fars news agency.
The fate of the reactor was one of the toughest sticking points in Iran's long nuclear negotiations last year.
Under the terms of the deal, Iran agreed the heavy-water reactor would be reconfigured so it was not capable of yielding material for a nuclear weapon.
The removal of the core is one of the final steps required by the deal.
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Old 01-12-2016, 05:43 PM
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I'm more concerned about optics, now that even some Dems are quietly saber-rattling. But yeah, I agree that this in and of itself is no big deal.

Since when is there a censor on Non? Since when is there a censor at all?
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Old 01-12-2016, 05:44 PM
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Whenever something like this happens, I think it's important to put the shoe on the other foot.

What would our gov't do if 2 Iranian boats with 10 Iranian military personnel was detained in a restricted military space like say the Norfolk Naval shipyard?

Do you think we'd likely detain them? I would imagine we would and then some. Hell, many on the Right would probably call that an Act of War.
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  #6  
Old 01-12-2016, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
Whenever something like this happens, I think it's important to put the shoe on the other foot.

What would our gov't do if 2 Iranian boats with 10 Iranian military personnel was detained in a restricted military space like say the Norfolk Naval shipyard?

Do you think we'd likely detain them? I would imagine we would and then some. Hell, many on the Right would probably call that an Act of War.
This is kind of my point, though. Considering the mood of our electorate, our politicians won't see it from their perspective. There are some who would call this an act of war. Certainly people pushing for 'action' against Iran will find a large audience. Any action will likely be economic, and an Iran in economic straits does not bode well for a quiet region.
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Old 01-12-2016, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by The Unreasoner View Post
This is kind of my point, though. Considering the mood of our electorate, our politicians won't see it from their perspective. There are some who would call this an act of war. Certainly people pushing for 'action' against Iran will find a large audience. Any action will likely be economic, and an Iran in economic straits does not bode well for a quiet region.
I think if they're handed back over shortly as expected, that'll be the end of it. They did nothing wrong by detaining them. If anything, we owe them an apology for violating their sovereignty even by accident.
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Old 01-12-2016, 06:52 PM
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There was an Onion 'American Voices' piece I looked for but failed to find, talking about a US spy plane crashing in China. The best response was from a guy saying 'If a Chinese spy plane crashed into the US, I'm sure we'd give it right back'.

On that note, I wonder why Trump hasn't called for a ban on Chinese immigrants. Because a metric fuckton of them are engaged in serious industrial espionage. It's almost to the point that any Chinese nationals with a booth at a trade show should be detained as a matter of course (no I'm not advocating such a course of action. But it is a serious problem).
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Old 01-13-2016, 01:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unreasoner View Post
You're not making it any easier for the US to stop treating you like a member of the Axis of Evil.
...
Quote:
play with matches around your crippled, gas-soaked economy.
Thanks for your input.
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Old 01-13-2016, 04:17 AM
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The sailors have been released again.

How evil of Iran, to release people once they've been shown to be innocent. The USA, in contrast, keeps such people locked up (in Guantanamo Bay, for instance) as long as any politician can still use them for scare mongering and such. Obviously, Iran should have kept those sailors captive until the War On Terror was ended with a peace treaty signed by all relevant parties.
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Old 01-13-2016, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
The sailors have been released again.

How evil of Iran, to release people once they've been shown to be innocent. The USA, in contrast, keeps such people locked up (in Guantanamo Bay, for instance) as long as any politician can still use them for scare mongering and such. Obviously, Iran should have kept those sailors captive until the War On Terror was ended with a peace treaty signed by all relevant parties.
Released completely unharmed after very brief questioning too...in direct contract to previous incidents with British sailors where they were held for weeks, interrogated at length and then paraded through the streets of Tehran.

Its almost as if engagement and diplomacy rather than bullying and threats work.

Again, very important to emphasize how different this would be if the shoe was on the other foot and it was foreign national military members captured entering a US territory illegally.
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  #12  
Old 01-13-2016, 03:37 PM
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Sorry, meant to post this yesterday.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
The sailors have been released again.

How evil of Iran, to release people once they've been shown to be innocent. The USA, in contrast, keeps such people locked up (in Guantanamo Bay, for instance) as long as any politician can still use them for scare mongering and such. Obviously, Iran should have kept those sailors captive until the War On Terror was ended with a peace treaty signed by all relevant parties.
Again, I don't think Iran is acting 'evil' here (and SoE, it's Bush's phrase. I'm trying to convey the tone US politics takes). Just stupid. I want this nuclear deal to go over smoothly, Iran to balance the Saudis in the region, and for the life of the average Iranian to improve. But Iranian hardliners are playing with fire. It's election season over here, and even Democrats were calling for new sanctions even before this happened. They're not making it any easier for those calling for diplomatic solutions.

And they don't always let innocent people go. And sometimes they invite them to the country, then arrest them. No I'm not defending Guantanamo (which apparently will finally be closed).

As for my comments on Chinese industrial espionage: if it offended, I apologize. But friends of mine have dealt with it firsthand.
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Old 01-13-2016, 04:16 PM
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The fact we did nothing but "thank" our enemies for releasing our sailors doesn't help very much either. Iran is showing off news coverage of our Navy sailors apologizing, just diminishing our power in the world even more, though this administration is all too happy for that to happen. God-forbid America lead from the front and consider itself a major power. And no, I'm not saying we should have gone forward and bombed the hell out of them, but there should have been a harsh response, but again, that doesn't happen. Especially when it comes to Iran. Josh Earnest's response on CNN was an absolute joke, as well. Even CNN was stunned.
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Old 01-13-2016, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Southpaw2012 View Post
The fact we did nothing but "thank" our enemies for releasing our sailors doesn't help very much either. Iran is showing off news coverage of our Navy sailors apologizing, just diminishing our power in the world even more, though this administration is all too happy for that to happen. God-forbid America lead from the front and consider itself a major power. And no, I'm not saying we should have gone forward and bombed the hell out of them, but there should have been a harsh response, but again, that doesn't happen. Especially when it comes to Iran. Josh Earnest's response on CNN was an absolute joke, as well. Even CNN was stunned.
You see what I mean?
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Old 01-13-2016, 05:25 PM
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So, our military infringes on their sovereign space and they are supposed to bow and scrape?
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Old 01-13-2016, 05:36 PM
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So, our military infringes on their sovereign space and they are supposed to bow and scrape?
Of course not. That isn't what I've been saying at all.
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Old 01-13-2016, 05:37 PM
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Of course not. That isn't what I've been saying at all.
No. Thats what Southpaw is saying.
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Old 01-13-2016, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Southpaw2012 View Post
The fact we did nothing but "thank" our enemies for releasing our sailors doesn't help very much either. Iran is showing off news coverage of our Navy sailors apologizing, just diminishing our power in the world even more, though this administration is all too happy for that to happen. God-forbid America lead from the front and consider itself a major power. And no, I'm not saying we should have gone forward and bombed the hell out of them, but there should have been a harsh response, but again, that doesn't happen. Especially when it comes to Iran. Josh Earnest's response on CNN was an absolute joke, as well. Even CNN was stunned.
You get that we're the ones that fucked up here, right? I mean, we actually violated the national sovereignty of a foreign country and all they did was confirm our alleged story (engine failure and unintentional beaching on their military island) was legit before releasing our people back. I doubt we'd be so gracious if the tables were turned.

Our sailors apologized because they knew they fucked up...big time. If anything, whoever was in command of the mission should be court-marshalled for such a giant clusterfuck.
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Old 01-15-2016, 06:02 PM
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http://www.theblaze.com/contribution...han-answers-2/

Read this. The government has been worried about the hacking of GPS's. Thankfully John Kerry thanked our enemies for releasing our captured sailors. Thankfully we continue to weaken sanctions placed upon our enemy for their fantastic behavior of breaking the "treaty" and capturing our sailors. Pathetic joke. We have never been weaker in the eyes of the world.
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Old 01-15-2016, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Southpaw2012 View Post
http://www.theblaze.com/contribution...han-answers-2/

Read this. The government has been worried about the hacking of GPS's. Thankfully John Kerry thanked our enemies for releasing our captured sailors. Thankfully we continue to weaken sanctions placed upon our enemy for their fantastic behavior of breaking the "treaty" and capturing our sailors. Pathetic joke. We have never been weaker in the eyes of the world.
One, you're an idiot.

Two, "hacking" a GPS wouldn't cause the engine to die which is why they stopped.

Three, sailors are trained to use secondary navigation aids including dead reckoning and even the use of a sextant if need be.

Finally, why hack it exactly? So they could hand them over with no incident less than 24 hours later in accordance with int'l law?

But carry on with your idiotic BS.
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