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  #1  
Old 01-23-2016, 01:29 PM
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Default Mike Bloomberg?

It's not often that an independent candidate seems viable, but Bloomberg could make things interesting, especially if it is Trump vs Sanders. But would Mike just steal votes from the Dems? He basically is just a more likable version of Hillary from a policy standpoint. But would establishment-type Republicans also prefer him to Trump? Maybe. And if the Republicans go full-blown crazy and nominate Cruz? Bloomberg probably wins in a complete landslide if it is him, Cruz, and Sanders (or Hillary). Heck, in that scenario, I'd probably be looking at poll numbers to decide between Mike and Bernie/Hillary.

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-35392989
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Old 01-23-2016, 10:08 PM
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I think I would be tempted to vote for him over Hillary. Not sure about Bernie. Definitely Trump or Cruz, though.

Yeah, if he gets in the race it will probably be messy. I can't see many on the right going for him, though, even though he's fairly centrist. They see him as a liberal because his pet issues are often liberal. For them he's synonymous with light bulb and soda tyranny. Donors, establishment types—sure. But not the base.
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Old 01-24-2016, 04:13 AM
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From what little I remember of reading about your elections, I think that if the electoral college can't agree upon a candidate then it is thrown to the House. Would that be a good idea for liberally inclined people?
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Old 01-24-2016, 08:55 AM
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That hasn't happened since 1825. Also, if that happens then the House votes by state delegation (each state gets one vote), so that favors Republicans even more than usual.
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Old 01-24-2016, 09:29 AM
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That hasn't happened since 1825. Also, if that happens then the House votes by state delegation (each state gets one vote), so that favors Republicans even more than usual.
There were similar shenanigans in 1876 too with Hayes and the Republicans (albeit back when they were the good guys) stealing the election from Tilden. That wasn't technically a tied electoral vote, but 20 contested, and crucial (Tilden just needed one of the 20 to win the election, Hayes needed all 20) votes that were put to a delegation that conveniently had 8 Republicans and 7 Democrats. You can guess how they voted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...election,_1876

It essentially happened in 2000 as well. Gore clearly won the popular vote, and probably won the electoral college, but that time it was a partisan vote by the Supreme Court rather than by Congress that stole the election.

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Old 01-24-2016, 09:51 AM
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I was talking specifically about Gonzo's scenario, not general "times the popular vote didn't decide the election" or what have you.
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Old 01-24-2016, 10:50 AM
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I was talking specifically about Gonzo's scenario, not general "times the popular vote didn't decide the election" or what have you.
I know, but that's essentially what happened in both 1876 and 2000 as well, which also underscores the unlikelihood that the House would ever again exclusively decide the issue as it had in 1824, as the circumstances that led to the problem in that year were replicated, but with a different means of resolution in both 1876 and 2000. It wasn't the popular vote (since both Tilden and Gore won that). It wasn't the electoral college, as no one knew who had won that in either 1876 or 2000. In 1824 when the same happened (Jackson winning the popular, no one winning the electoral college), it was the House of Reps, as per Gonzo's scenario. In 1876 the delegation that decided the election after the electoral college was disputed was a commission of sitting senators and representatives and Supreme Court Justices - probably in hopes of avoiding the corrupt conclusion that ended the 1824 election. Three from the majority party in each the Senate and House, and two from the minority. That rendered 5 from each, as the dems controlled the House and the republicans controlled the Senate. Then five SC justices, which meant 2 dems and three republicans. Hence a total of 8 republicans and 7 dems, and the extra republican was the difference, since as with the situation in 2000, no one had a clue what really had happened, and so it came down to politics rather than to who really had more votes, since both sides were convinced that they had won. In 2000, again no one knew who won the electoral college. Sending it to the House had clearly been shown, twice (1824 and 1876), to be an inevitably corrupt process, so instead they turned instead to just the Supreme Court, which unfortunately was also a partisan rather than impartial decision. Hence whenever Gonzo's scenario happens, as it had all three of those years, it just has come down to which side has more seats at whatever deciding body, which now would again clearly, and overwhelmingly, be the Republicans.

Back on topic, apparently Ed Rendell told the NYT that he'd probably vote for Bloomberg over Sanders, but thinks that Mike won't run if it's Hillary.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/24/ny...house-run.html

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Edward G. Rendell, the former governor of Pennsylvania and a past Democratic National Committee chairman, said he believed Mr. Bloomberg could compete in the race if activist candidates on the left and right prevailed in the party primaries.

“Mike Bloomberg for president rests on the not-impossible but somewhat unlikely circumstance of either Donald Trump or Ted Cruz versus Bernie Sanders,” said Mr. Rendell, a close ally of Mrs. Clinton’s who is also a friend of Mr. Bloomberg’s. “If Hillary wins the nomination, Hillary is mainstream enough that Mike would have no chance, and Mike’s not going to go on a suicide mission.”

In a three-way race featuring Mr. Sanders and Mr. Bloomberg, Mr. Rendell said he might back the former New York mayor.

“As a lifelong Democrat, as a former party chairman, it would be very hard for me to do that,” he said. “But I would certainly take a look at it — absolutely.”

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  #8  
Old 01-24-2016, 11:48 AM
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All right, this is getting interesting. Suppose the electoral college ends up 40% Sanders, 40% Bloomberg and 20% Carson (who hasn't dropped out, yet, and thus may end up as the one all Republicans gather behind). Then what?
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  #9  
Old 01-24-2016, 12:03 PM
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All right, this is getting interesting. Suppose the electoral college ends up 40% Sanders, 40% Bloomberg and 20% Carson (who hasn't dropped out, yet, and thus may end up as the one all Republicans gather behind). Then what?
Scenario 1:

It goes to the House, all the Republicans vote for Carson, the Dems split between Bloomberg and Sanders. We're stuck with president Carson.

Scenario 2:

Some mixed delegation is formed. Same result as above. President Carson.

Scenario 3:

It goes to the Supreme Court. Who knows. Maybe President Bloomberg, depending on who Roberts and Scalia feel more comfortable with between Bloomberg and Carson, which considering that they are at least literate and non-Evangelical Republicans, probably Bloomberg.

Scenario 4:

It goes to House, Republicans refuse to vote for a black man (Carson) or a Jew (Bloomberg and Sanders, not that they'd vote for a Socialist Jew anyway). We get President some random hick from the South.

Scenario 5:

South secedes. We all rejoice. The North becomes a Utopia, the South quickly becomes the sh*thole that it has always longed to be. We build a wall along the Ohio River to keep the hillbillies from fleeing north back into civilization.
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Old 01-24-2016, 01:16 PM
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You guys know that it's not 'one man, one vote' if this goes to the House. It's one State, one vote. Which, since the great state of California (approximately half the size of the entire UK in terms of GDP and population) has the same voting rights as an abandoned shithole like Wyoming, we're fucked.
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Old 01-24-2016, 01:47 PM
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You guys know that it's not 'one man, one vote' if this goes to the House. It's one State, one vote. Which, since the great state of California (approximately half the size of the entire UK in terms of GDP and population) has the same voting rights as an abandoned shithole like Wyoming, we're fucked.
In Wyoming's defense, it's not so much abandoned as never occupied. Still, when you have twice as many cattle (1.2 million) as people (580,000), you shouldn't be a state. Especially when you have fewer people than both the District of Columbia (670,000) and Puerto Rico (3.5 million).

The electoral college is a bit archaic, but for the most part has worked fine, and has helped to rectify those types of imbalances of representation. Nonetheless, when it fails to produce a clear winner, the election should then be decided purely by the winner of the popular vote, not by who happens to have a slight advantage in Congress or the Supreme Court.
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Old 01-24-2016, 03:35 PM
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Nonetheless, when it fails to produce a clear winner, the election should then be decided purely by the winner of the popular vote, not by who happens to have a slight advantage in Congress or the Supreme Court.
I couldn't agree to that. Certainly not after the fact. Maybe if the policy was put in place now, and adequately communicated to the public. But as much as I would have preferred Gore over Bush (even before we saw the nature of a Bush presidency), this policy is clearly unfair. What about Texas Democrats and Californian Republicans who don't vote simply because they know it won't affect the outcome? Or Texas Republicans and Californian Democrats who didn't vote for the same reason? There's no way to know how to fairly settle a disputed election in our current system, beyond the (deeply flawed) mechanism currently dictated by the Constitution.

What we need to do is get rid of the Electoral College altogether. And gerrymandering, but good luck there.
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Old 01-24-2016, 06:23 PM
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If Sanders won the nom (very unlikely) and Bloomberg ran, it'd throw the election to the House at best and that's a slam-dunk GOP victory. If he ran and it didn't go to the House, it'd be because Trump won an outright majority.

So Bloomberg is probably the dumbest POS in existence.
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Old 01-24-2016, 06:25 PM
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In Wyoming's defense, it's not so much abandoned as never occupied. Still, when you have twice as many cattle (1.2 million) as people (580,000), you shouldn't be a state. Especially when you have fewer people than both the District of Columbia (670,000) and Puerto Rico (3.5 million).

The electoral college is a bit archaic, but for the most part has worked fine, and has helped to rectify those types of imbalances of representation. Nonetheless, when it fails to produce a clear winner, the election should then be decided purely by the winner of the popular vote, not by who happens to have a slight advantage in Congress or the Supreme Court.
DC is specifically considered a federal district per the Constitution so it'd likely require an Amendment for them to get statehood which will never ever EVER happen since it'd give the Dems 1 more Rep and (more importantly) 2 more Senators given its extreme Left slant. PR has had a chance at statehood multiple times now and turned it down. They get all the benefits of being in the US without any of the downsides so it makes sense for them to not be a State.
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Old 01-25-2016, 03:08 AM
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In Wyoming's defense, it's not so much abandoned as never occupied. Still, when you have twice as many cattle (1.2 million) as people (580,000), you shouldn't be a state.
Can't they count each head of cattle as two fifths of a person?
That'd be right in the spirit of the Constitution, even if it isn't quite a literal reading of it.
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Old 01-25-2016, 04:48 AM
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Can't they count each head of cattle as two fifths of a person?
That'd be right in the spirit of the Constitution, even if it isn't quite a literal reading of it.
The average human isn't that smart Gonzo.
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Old 01-25-2016, 05:31 AM
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The average human isn't that smart Gonzo.
That problem didn't stop the actual three fifths from appearing in the Constitution, did it?
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Old 01-25-2016, 05:40 AM
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That problem didn't stop the actual three fifths from appearing in the Constitution, did it?
That doesn't make insulting innocent and honorable animals right.
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Old 01-25-2016, 05:46 AM
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Y'all. Let's not get too meta here.
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Old 01-25-2016, 06:52 AM
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Actually, I think that getting a competent, rational and sensible Congress could be more important than whatever president you get. After all, Congress can impeach the president, but not the other way around. So it is clear where the checks and balances are supposed to be.
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