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  #1  
Old 04-19-2016, 02:29 PM
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Default Game of Thrones Season 6

Figured I'd start a thread with the new season starting this Sunday. There's a few interesting things we know already (I should note that there will be spoilers in this post, even if it's just rehashing what others have found out already about the season):

First, the obvious one: Jon Snow is back. Despite everyone from Kit Harrington himself to every other cast member of the show vehemently denying any sort of resurrection, the fact that he's been spotted in costume during the filming of a scene called the Battle of the Bastards makes it pretty much certain he'll be back at least sometime before episode 9.

And that battle in episode 9 seems pretty cool. Apparently its Jon, the Northmen, and some wildlings vs. the Boltons for control of Winterfell. It's going to be one of those full-episode battle sequences, like The Blackwater, and it's basically just two armies showing up on a field with thousands of men and horses and duking it out for an hour, kind of like the Battle of the Pelinnor Fields in RotK. Should be fun, since nothing like that has ever really been done for a TV show on this scale (thousands of extras/horses, months of shooting, etc.)

Sandor Clegane is back. He was spotted on set, apparently.

The Tower of Joy scene, witnessed as a flashback by Bran and Bloodraven, will appear. You can see young Ned in some of the trailers, and apparently they cast "the best swordsman in Europe" (or something to that effect) as Ser Arthur Dayne. Should be fun to watch, though I'm not sure if they'd reveal R + L = J yet.

This is a thing every year, but I guess there's a chance Lady Stoneheart will actually appear this season. Paul Kaye, who plays Thoros of Myr, is returning and is rumored to be at a trial type of scene.

Anyway, it should be a cool season.
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Old 04-19-2016, 09:29 PM
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I'll admit, GoT and ASOIAF I kind of fell out with. Why? In the famous words of The Joker:
Why so serious?

I like humor in what I watch. Doesn't mean I won't follow the series through things like this, but aside from that? Yeah.

I do wonder how many more seasons there will be. I mean, how long can they keep dear, sweet Dany stuck in the lands she's supposedly not supposed to rule? How long will Cersei keep avoiding almost certain death (for nearly any other character)? How long until Arya ends Cersei? How long until R+L=J is confirmed (or whatever twist they try and pull)?
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Old 04-20-2016, 09:53 PM
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I hear you, though to be honest asoiaf is really the only major series I like that isn't already finished. The others that I were really into were WoT (done) and Malazan (still doing stuff, but the main series is done). I've tried getting into other series, like Abercrombie's First Law, but the writing is just so bad lol... I like Rothfuss's Kingkiller Chronicles, which I guess might be turned into a TV series too (which would be cool), but he writes even slower than GRRM does.

FWIW, the producers of GoT have apparently said they think they can wrap up the entire series with only thirteen more episodes after season six, though that would possibly be split into two short seasons as opposed to one long one. It's encouraging for book fans, though, if they think season 6 plus 13 more episodes is enough to cover all of GRRM's ideas for tWoW and aDoS.
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Old 04-20-2016, 10:36 PM
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I hear you, though to be honest asoiaf is really the only major series I like that isn't already finished. The others that I were really into were WoT (done) and Malazan (still doing stuff, but the main series is done). I've tried getting into other series, like Abercrombie's First Law, but the writing is just so bad lol... I like Rothfuss's Kingkiller Chronicles, which I guess might be turned into a TV series too (which would be cool), but he writes even slower than GRRM does.

FWIW, the producers of GoT have apparently said they think they can wrap up the entire series with only thirteen more episodes after season six, though that would possibly be split into two short seasons as opposed to one long one. It's encouraging for book fans, though, if they think season 6 plus 13 more episodes is enough to cover all of GRRM's ideas for tWoW and aDoS.
I have a couple, but they have a similar problem WOT did, but without a Sanderson to pick up the slack.

There is the Temeraire series, which has 1 book left to be published (last I checked). In short? Napoleonic Wars, but with sentient dragons of all shapes and sizes. Rather interesting really.

But at least it seems the end is in sight for GOT. A Song of Ice and Fire? Looks like someone may need to pick up the slack.
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Old 04-24-2016, 10:14 PM
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Thoughts on the first episode?

-The Dorne plot still seems dumb. Why they thought that this would be better than Arianne continues to mystify me, and they are thoroughly ruining all of the character development in Jaime as well.

-I'm also still not sure what the point of ever having Arya go to Braavos was supposed to be. With all the changes that HBO has made, why couldn't have they fixed this nonsense rather than have Arya just waste time out in the middle of bloody nowhere. Bad enough that we already have Dany killing time doing nothing on the wrong continent, having Arya do likewise is just dumb.

-Shouldn't they be worrying about Jon coming back as a wight? I imagine that they didn't want to resurrect him already in the first episode, but it seems like they're going to need to do something there quick or else shouldn't even his friends be talking about the need to cremate him soon? Is he protected from turning because of the Wall? Othor turned in Castle Black, but he was already dead when they brought him back, and I'm not aware of any other examples of the dead coming back on this side of the Wall. Which side of the Wall was Torwynd on when he died, and when he rose?
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Old 04-24-2016, 10:25 PM
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Wights don't just turn because they're in the North. They turn when the Others kill them or find their bodies.

Dunno why you would assume the Arya plotline is dumb just because you don't know where it's going.

We watched it at JordanCon; it was playing in the con suite and then we had a separate suite for the serious watchers who didn't want to put up with people talking during the show. I was in the latter one; we had about 30 people in there. Fortunately the con is pretty much over on Sunday afternoon, or we'd have had more trying to squeeze in there. Only the hardcore con folks stay until Monday.

There was some guy in the room (I don't know him) who said he's known about Melisandre being an old woman for 5 years now and he had to keep it secret.
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Old 04-24-2016, 10:36 PM
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Dunno why you would assume the Arya plotline is dumb just because you don't know where it's going.
That is exactly the problem. Where is it going?
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Old 04-24-2016, 11:03 PM
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That is exactly the problem. Where is it going?
She's gonna learn the Fus Roh Dah and annihilate all those that have ever harmed her family, followed by killing Ald-I mean Drogon in an epic battle after Jon becomes the best fighter in the world and befriends all those that tried/had him killed and defeats Frie-I mean the Night King. And marries Dany after she ends slavery on Essos and becomes empowered by the moon and a magical quill.

I may or may not have been reading too much fanfiction lately.
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Old 04-24-2016, 11:39 PM
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She's gonna learn the Fus Roh Dah and annihilate all those that have ever harmed her family, followed by killing Ald-I mean Drogon in an epic battle after Jon becomes the best fighter in the world and befriends all those that tried/had him killed and defeats Frie-I mean the Night King. And marries Dany after she ends slavery on Essos and becomes empowered by the moon and a magical quill.

I may or may not have been reading too much fanfiction lately.
It just feels like GRRM needed something for her to do for a few books while the other threads played out. That would be fine if it was involving key character development, but does it? She is training, but training in what? The House of Black and White at its heart still requires that she abandon what she was, yet at some point she must reject that ideology so that she can return to Westeros to use the more mundane aspect of her training even while she rejects the more esoteric. That still is more interesting than what Dany has been up to, but it still feels very much like she is just in a holding pattern while the other plots are slowly getting resolved enough to allow for hers to reintegrate.
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Old 04-25-2016, 12:34 AM
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It just feels like GRRM needed something for her to do for a few books while the other threads played out. That would be fine if it was involving key character development, but does it? She is training, but training in what? The House of Black and White at its heart still requires that she abandon what she was, yet at some point she must reject that ideology so that she can return to Westeros to use the more mundane aspect of her training even while she rejects the more esoteric. That still is more interesting than what Dany has been up to, but it still feels very much like she is just in a holding pattern while the other plots are slowly getting resolved enough to allow for hers to reintegrate.
I think that may be the problem with having stories with numerous main characters. Especially when spread out so much over the world.

RJ made it work with his series (for the most part, still had all those bathing scenes), but his characters were nearly all tied together in one way or another. It hasn't been until recently that the MCs of Westeros have really begun to interact with one another. Aside from the Lannister/Stark feud of course.
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Old 04-25-2016, 12:59 AM
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It just feels like GRRM needed something for her to do for a few books while the other threads played out. That would be fine if it was involving key character development, but does it? She is training, but training in what? The House of Black and White at its heart still requires that she abandon what she was, yet at some point she must reject that ideology so that she can return to Westeros to use the more mundane aspect of her training even while she rejects the more esoteric. That still is more interesting than what Dany has been up to, but it still feels very much like she is just in a holding pattern while the other plots are slowly getting resolved enough to allow for hers to reintegrate.
It's character building in the sense that Arya will learn that she can't just abandon the world and start a new life. All her life she's essentially distanced herself from everyone close to her (or who should be close to her). Sansa, Catelyn, Septa Mordane, basically everyone at King's Landing, Gendry, Hot Pie, the Brotherhood, the Hound, etc. She's very much a lone wolf who, as far as she's concerned, should be able to abandon Westeros and her old life. But as Eddard told her in book 1, the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives. Arya will learn she simply can't abandon everything like the Faceless Men do. Obviously she already knows this, at least on some level, but the realization that she'll need to return to being who she really is and getting help from others is very important, as it will drastically change her philosophy as a character.

That and she'll learn how to warg, but they'll probably cut that from the show.




Yeah, the Dorne plot is just dumb at this point. I guess the producers realized this and just decided to kill everyone. I mean, what was even the point of casting Areo Hotah? I'd say I hope the Sand Snakes do something cool now, but they'll probably all just be killed off next episode...and that would be for the best, to be honest.

I hope they don't screw up the Iron Islands subplot too. The burning of the ships in Meereen seems to be setting up the need for the Iron Fleet to go there. Victorian hasn't been cast that I know of, but Asha/Yara or Euron himself could go (or both of them, or even Theon I guess).

Also I'm pretty sure there's no way Sansa and Theon could have made it more than a few yards into the stream before their legs went numb, let alone crossed it easily and been fine after hugging each other.
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Old 04-25-2016, 01:30 AM
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Thoughts on the first episode?

-The Dorne plot still seems dumb. Why they thought that this would be better than Arianne continues to mystify me, and they are thoroughly ruining all of the character development in Jaime as well.

-I'm also still not sure what the point of ever having Arya go to Braavos was supposed to be. With all the changes that HBO has made, why couldn't have they fixed this nonsense rather than have Arya just waste time out in the middle of bloody nowhere. Bad enough that we already have Dany killing time doing nothing on the wrong continent, having Arya do likewise is just dumb.

-Shouldn't they be worrying about Jon coming back as a wight? I imagine that they didn't want to resurrect him already in the first episode, but it seems like they're going to need to do something there quick or else shouldn't even his friends be talking about the need to cremate him soon? Is he protected from turning because of the Wall? Othor turned in Castle Black, but he was already dead when they brought him back, and I'm not aware of any other examples of the dead coming back on this side of the Wall. Which side of the Wall was Torwynd on when he died, and when he rose?

Doran Martell was completely irrelevant to the tv show. Took up air time and was then killed off randomly with little reason why other than he didn't do enough apparently. At least he's somewhat interesting in the books.

So what's this about Mel? Was she an old witch this whole time, similar to the old crone who confronted Cersei as a child?
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Old 04-25-2016, 04:08 AM
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Dunno why you would assume the Arya plotline is dumb just because you don't know where it's going.
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That is exactly the problem. Where is it going?
This is Game of Thrones, right?
So obviously, she's going to be killed fairly soon, and her plot line is not going anywhere at all. That's what the series is all about: the futility of hope and expectation.
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Old 04-25-2016, 07:45 AM
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Doran Martell was completely irrelevant to the tv show. Took up air time and was then killed off randomly with little reason why other than he didn't do enough apparently. At least he's somewhat interesting in the books.

So what's this about Mel? Was she an old witch this whole time, similar to the old crone who confronted Cersei as a child?
What an utter waste of an amazing character actor in Alexander Siddig...oh well.

And the Sand Sisters are utterly awful and stupid...but whatever.

Quote:
Also I'm pretty sure there's no way Sansa and Theon could have made it more than a few yards into the stream before their legs went numb, let alone crossed it easily and been fine after hugging each other.
They'd have probably made it across and then went into hypothermic shock shortly afterward unless there was a giant fire, warm clothes and hot food. Even then, it would have been touch or go. Adrenaline would have given them enough to get across as long as they didnt go in over their chest and thus cooled their heart too much too quickly. The body is surprisingly good at keeping going during such a flight or fight situation.

But yeah, they would have been dead very soon afterward...hugging wouldn't have been enough to get their core temperatures back up in that type of weather.
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Old 04-25-2016, 08:54 AM
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That is exactly the problem. Where is it going?
I'm sure we'll find out eventually. I mean, what's the point of fiction if you know what's going to happen?
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Old 04-25-2016, 11:28 AM
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I'm sure we'll find out eventually. I mean, what's the point of fiction if you know what's going to happen?
Well, they did have Sean Bean portray a fairly important character in Season 1. And died. I'd say that was pretty predictable.
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Old 04-25-2016, 12:34 PM
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I'm sure we'll find out eventually. I mean, what's the point of fiction if you know what's going to happen?
The other plot-lines have a clear (or clearer) purpose. Jon is fighting the Others and learning to accept that his fate is larger than just defending the Wall. Sansa is learning the Westerosi version of daes dae'mar so that she won't fall prey again to Tully incompetence syndrome. Bran is turning into treeboy so that he can help in the Battle against the Others. Sam is at Oldtown retrieving intel on how to help in that same fight. Jaime is earning his redemption in the Riverlands. Tyrion is making everyone think that he is clearly the only one fit to be king. Aegon is reminding everyone how completely useless Dany is. Dany is showing how unfit she is to rule. Cersei is playing the mad king.

Arya? Her story is more interesting than some of those above, but it still seems lacking in a clear purpose. Hers still feels more like GRRM needed something for her to do to fill space until she was needed again in Westeros, than that she had something that she needed to do. Her plot seems like it would have flowed more smoothly had he kept Syrio Forel alive, and had him continue training Arya in Westeros, and had her slowly assassinate one Lannister after another in the past few books than have her go to Braavos, spend a few books training, and then to reject most of that training so that she can return home. If her training didn't require her to abandon her identity, it would seem less of a non sequitur. What exactly is the point of her becoming one of the Nameless? It just seems both counter-productive, and something which she must eventually abandon. That would be fine if it wasn't spread over so many books, or if GRRM just gave a better feel for any indication that he still knew where the main story was going. Arya's lack of direction forward just seems too indicative of the main problem with the whole series. GRRM seems to have lost sight of how to wrap things up.
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Old 04-25-2016, 01:18 PM
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The last book made it abundantly clear that GRRM has no clue where to take the story so we basically got a "Small Collection of Westorosi Stories" instead of a coherent plot.

Its an amazing complex universe with a ton of different little facets and I think its great that GRRM could probably go on for hours about the history of House HalfClaw of the Isle sworn to House Baratheon of Storm's End, etc etc and their vast 700 year history but at the end of the day, you gotta move the plot along.

And he simply isn't...which is why he likely isn't even close to finishing up Winds of Winter and we'll never see the book after that. He's just digging the tires deeper into the mud instead of pushing the car free.
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Old 04-25-2016, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimon View Post
The other plot-lines have a clear (or clearer) purpose. Jon is fighting the Others and learning to accept that his fate is larger than just defending the Wall. Sansa is learning the Westerosi version of daes dae'mar so that she won't fall prey again to Tully incompetence syndrome. Bran is turning into treeboy so that he can help in the Battle against the Others. Sam is at Oldtown retrieving intel on how to help in that same fight. Jaime is earning his redemption in the Riverlands. Tyrion is making everyone think that he is clearly the only one fit to be king. Aegon is reminding everyone how completely useless Dany is. Dany is showing how unfit she is to rule. Cersei is playing the mad king.

Arya? Her story is more interesting than some of those above, but it still seems lacking in a clear purpose. Hers still feels more like GRRM needed something for her to do to fill space until she was needed again in Westeros, than that she had something that she needed to do. Her plot seems like it would have flowed more smoothly had he kept Syrio Forel alive, and had him continue training Arya in Westeros, and had her slowly assassinate one Lannister after another in the past few books than have her go to Braavos, spend a few books training, and then to reject most of that training so that she can return home. If her training didn't require her to abandon her identity, it would seem less of a non sequitur. What exactly is the point of her becoming one of the Nameless? It just seems both counter-productive, and something which she must eventually abandon. That would be fine if it wasn't spread over so many books, or if GRRM just gave a better feel for any indication that he still knew where the main story was going. Arya's lack of direction forward just seems too indicative of the main problem with the whole series. GRRM seems to have lost sight of how to wrap things up.
I've gotten the impression that Arya's storyline is aimed at potentially assassinating Dany. But then again, as with most characters in this series, one of them will be killed off before that ever happens because that's the only way GRRM knows how to "shock" his fans.
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Old 04-25-2016, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Southpaw2012 View Post
I've gotten the impression that Arya's storyline is aimed at potentially assassinating Dany. But then again, as with most characters in this series, one of them will be killed off before that ever happens because that's the only way GRRM knows how to "shock" his fans.
Be fair...he might also just have both of them get violently raped to "shock" them. He's more than just a 1 trick pony when it comes to shock value.
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