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  #1  
Old 09-26-2016, 08:29 PM
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Default So, the debate...

Trump, really has nothing of substance to say. All he does is attack Clinton. And cannot shut up for more than a few seconds.
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  #2  
Old 09-26-2016, 09:43 PM
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Yup...but its working because people are stupid.
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  #3  
Old 09-26-2016, 09:48 PM
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Trump, really has nothing of substance to say. All he does is attack Clinton. And cannot shut up for more than a few seconds.
Does Trump remind anyone else of Falstaff?
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  #4  
Old 09-26-2016, 11:32 PM
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I slept through it. Wasn't even tempted to wake up early to watch it.
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  #5  
Old 09-27-2016, 03:06 AM
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Yup...but its working because people are stupid.
Which sort of raises the question of why no one ever before got the bright idea of using Trump's Tactics. Or, if someone did, how that was countered then and why that method isn't used now.
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  #6  
Old 09-27-2016, 07:03 AM
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Which sort of raises the question of why no one ever before got the bright idea of using Trump's Tactics. Or, if someone did, how that was countered then and why that method isn't used now.
George Wallace is probably the most obvious high profile example, and, like Trump, was a blend of populism and racism. The dems kicked Wallace out of their party and disavowed him, something which the republicans (some did, but mostly just the few remaining New England republicans - the Bushes, Romney, Collins, and Weld - who now is the Libertarian VP candidate) should have done with Trump. But Wallace was still always very popular in the South - Alabama, for instance, defected in '64, and turned on LBJ. This was the beginning of the shift of Dixie en masse from the democratic to the republican party. In '68 he ran independent, and lost again, but won Alabama again - the last 3rd Party candidate to win a state. And he still didn't go away. He was governor of Alabama again from '71-'79 and then from '83 - '87.

The cancer that is eating away at the American body politic is the same cancer that has always been slowly killing us - the South. We'd be far better off as a country if we would but excise the rot.
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Old 09-27-2016, 08:12 AM
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Which sort of raises the question of why no one ever before got the bright idea of using Trump's Tactics. Or, if someone did, how that was countered then and why that method isn't used now.
Well, I dont think the Red Army is something we should count on this time around to "counter" these tactics....
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Old 09-27-2016, 11:49 PM
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A liberal buffoon vs. a lying crook. What did you expect to see?
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  #9  
Old 09-28-2016, 01:14 AM
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A liberal buffoon vs. a lying crook. What did you expect to see?
Which is which?
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  #10  
Old 09-28-2016, 01:35 AM
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Which is which?
Is this like one of those knights and knaves puzzles? The liberal buffoon truthfully claims to be a liberal buffoon and calls the lying crook a lying crook again truthfully while the lying crook lies and claims to be liberal buffoon and calls the liberal buffoon a lying crook?
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  #11  
Old 09-28-2016, 03:17 AM
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A liberal buffoon vs. a lying crook. What did you expect to see?
As I have been advising Americans for years now: vote third party.
If enough of you do that, then your politics will change. Until that time, you will never have a chance of voting for a candidate who is actually worthy of your vote.
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Old 09-28-2016, 06:56 AM
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As I have been advising Americans for years now: vote third party.
If enough of you do that, then your politics will change. Until that time, you will never have a chance of voting for a candidate who is actually worthy of your vote.
Third party candidates tend to be kooks, Gonzo.
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Old 09-28-2016, 07:09 AM
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Third party candidates tend to be kooks, Gonzo.
Which is different than Trump, how, exactly?
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  #14  
Old 09-28-2016, 08:13 AM
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Which is different than Trump, how, exactly?
Kooks Gonzo not crooks. The difference is in the level of malevolence. And the American voters are exactly the kind of cowards who won't take a chance on an unknown even over someone who is definitely going to screw them over.
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Old 09-28-2016, 11:42 AM
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The cancer that is eating away at the American body politic is the same cancer that has always been slowly killing us - the South. We'd be far better off as a country if we would but excise the rot.
No, the cancer as you call it is this bullshit mentality of moral superiority that people of all political persuasions have. This view that you've expressed is no better for political discourse than anything Trump has ever said. But because of some warped view you have that "SOUTH BAD; CONSERVATIVES RACIST; SOUTHERNERS CONSERVATIVE AND RACIST", you feel comments like this are justified. And you know what's worse than this idiotic world view? We somehow live in a world where not only do people feel comfortable expressing these views, no one calls them out on it.

I used to think people expressing views like yours and various things Trump has said came from a place of exaggerating viewpoints to capitalize on raw emotions. Now I'm not so sure. It's legitimately scary to me that it seems people like you actually believe the garbage that you spew. Not as an exaggeration, not as hyperbole, but legitimate belief.

And that's terrifying.

The good news is that I have figured out how to fix this problem.

Step 1: Create a moderate-centric discourse which publicly confronts and vigorously shouts down people expressing these extreme attitudes. It has to be not ok to say things like "we should eliminate the South". People who express these kinds of views (conservative, liberal, or any other political stripe) need to be called out for it.

There is no step 2. That's how simple this solution is. Political discussion is necessary, and viewpoints across the spectrum are needed to produce the best solutions to complex problems. I firmly believe that. The caustic belief of moral superiority that, frankly, I get a lot more from lefties than conservatives, needs to stop. Your liberal beliefs are not inherently better or make you a better person than someone who has conservative ideals. I don't know where that mentality comes from, but it's really obnoxious.
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Old 09-28-2016, 12:29 PM
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Kooks Gonzo not crooks. The difference is in the level of malevolence. And the American voters are exactly the kind of cowards who won't take a chance on an unknown even over someone who is definitely going to screw them over.
Do you think that Obama was a bad president? Bill Clinton?

There have been bad dem presidents - like Jimmy Carter. But even he was well-intentioned, he just was unskilled in persuading (or manipulating) congress, and that shortcoming was exacerbated by a poor economy and embarrassing diplomatic ventures abroad. And he at least came into office with some experience, as he had been governor of Georgia. But no foreign policy experience, nor any experience working with congress, both of which were problems. He was a good man, but inexperienced, and stubborn. Any dem will have trouble working with a republican controlled congress, but Jimmy (as would have Bernie) had trouble dealing even with his own party. Trump, Bernie, Johnson, and Stein would all be awful presidents, albeit varying degrees of awful. I think that both Bill and Barack were good presidents, and while Hillary isn't as charismatic as either of them, which is a legitimate shortcoming for a politician, she still serves as a continuation of the policies of two good presidents.
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Old 09-28-2016, 12:31 PM
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Step 1: Create a moderate-centric discourse which publicly confronts and vigorously shouts down people expressing these extreme attitudes. It has to be not ok to say things like "we should eliminate the South". People who express these kinds of views (conservative, liberal, or any other political stripe) need to be called out for it.
Divorce and eliminate are two very different things.
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Old 09-28-2016, 01:15 PM
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Do you think that Obama was a bad president? Bill Clinton?

There have been bad dem presidents - like Jimmy Carter. But even he was well-intentioned, he just was unskilled in persuading (or manipulating) congress, and that shortcoming was exacerbated by a poor economy and embarrassing diplomatic ventures abroad. And he at least came into office with some experience, as he had been governor of Georgia. But no foreign policy experience, nor any experience working with congress, both of which were problems. He was a good man, but inexperienced, and stubborn. Any dem will have trouble working with a republican controlled congress, but Jimmy (as would have Bernie) had trouble dealing even with his own party. Trump, Bernie, Johnson, and Stein would all be awful presidents, albeit varying degrees of awful. I think that both Bill and Barack were good presidents, and while Hillary isn't as charismatic as either of them, which is a legitimate shortcoming for a politician, she still serves as a continuation of the policies of two good presidents.
And your point is?
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Old 09-28-2016, 02:53 PM
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And your point is?
That, at least in my opinion, it's not both parties that are bad, just the one.
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Old 09-28-2016, 03:16 PM
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That, at least in my opinion, it's not both parties that are bad, just the one.
And this applies to my comment how exactly?

Besides, the fact that you keep thinking in terms of parties is part of the problem too.
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