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  #1  
Old 03-06-2017, 07:34 PM
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Default GOP ACA Proposal...

https://apnews.com/5def306ec09b4dd4b...&utm_medium=AP

Promises to completely gut healthcare for the poor and serve as a handout to the wealthy.

What a shock.

Also a "shocker", they plan a vote in 2 days while the ACA had 30 days of hearings and public review. So...I wonder what they're trying to hide. Bunch of chickenshit "Fuck you, I've got mine" traitors.

Age based subsidies rather than income based...because fuck the young and poor.

No more fines for lack of coverage but instead a 30% premium surcharge if you ever go 2 months without insurance. Um...so basically a giant FU to ensure people that ever go without will never be able to afford coverage.

All of the taxes on the wealthy used to finance the ACA will be repealed...which will either mean massive cuts in coverage (YUP...including a gutting of medicaid) and/or a huge deficit increase (the "fiscal conservative" GOP strikes again)

The only real reforms being kept are the ban on dropping coverage due to pre-existing conditions and the ability to keep your kid on your insurance until they're 26.

Otherwise, its exactly what everyone with half a brain figured the idiot GOP would come up with.
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Old 03-06-2017, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
https://apnews.com/5def306ec09b4dd4b...&utm_medium=AP

Promises to completely gut healthcare for the poor and serve as a handout to the wealthy.

What a shock.

Also a "shocker", they plan a vote in 2 days while the ACA had 30 days of hearings and public review. So...I wonder what they're trying to hide. Bunch of chickenshit "Fuck you, I've got mine" traitors.

Age based subsidies rather than income based...because fuck the young and poor.

No more fines for lack of coverage but instead a 30% premium surcharge if you ever go 2 months without insurance. Um...so basically a giant FU to ensure people that ever go without will never be able to afford coverage.

All of the taxes on the wealthy used to finance the ACA will be repealed...which will either mean massive cuts in coverage (YUP...including a gutting of medicaid) and/or a huge deficit increase (the "fiscal conservative" GOP strikes again)

The only real reforms being kept are the ban on dropping coverage due to pre-existing conditions and the ability to keep your kid on your insurance until they're 26.

Otherwise, its exactly what everyone with half a brain figured the idiot GOP would come up with.
Two days? I have to think that even many republicans will balk at that.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/power...=.210cf9403392

This is a much more thorough look, and this looks like a mess, and it already seems to be making at least some republicans in states that passed the Medicaid expansion nervous, as this initial plan seems to call for phasing that out by 2020.

Quote:
Under bills drafted by two House committees, the GOP would no longer penalize Americans for failing to have health insurance and would begin winding down the ACA’s expansion of Medicaid three years from now.
Quote:
Even so, signs emerged on Monday that Republicans in Congress’s upper chamber could balk either at the cost of the proposal or if it leaves swaths of the country without insurance coverage.
Quote:
And four key Republican senators, all from states that opted to expand Medicaid under the ACA, said they would oppose any new plan that would leave millions of Americans uninsured.

“We will not support a plan that does not include stability for Medicaid expansion populations or flexibility for states,” Sens. Rob Portman (R-Ohio), Shelley Moore Capito (R. W.Va.), Cory Gardner (R-Colo.) and Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska) wrote in a letter to Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.).

The four senators were split on exactly what proposals would meet their standards, but with 52 Republicans, McConnell would not have enough votes to pass repeal without the support of at least two of them.
It also looks like they may be realizing that avoiding income-based subsidies may be impossible.

Quote:
The tax credits outlined by the Ways and Means Committee’s portion of the legislation incorporates an approach that Republicans have long criticized: income-based aid to help Americans afford health coverage.

Until now, the GOP had been intending to veer away from the ACA subsidies that help poor and middle-class people obtain insurance, insisting that the size of tax credits with which they planned to replace the subsidies should be based entirely on people’s ages and not their incomes. But the drafts issued Monday proposed refundable tax credits that would hinge on earnings as well as age.

This big pivot, developed by the Ways and Means Committee under the guidance of House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.), stems from a combination of problems that were arising with the idea of age-only credits that would have been available to any individual or family buying insurance on their own, no matter how affluent.

Estimates from congressional budget analysts and the White House’s Office of Management and Budget kept showing that the credits would be both too small to provide enough help to lower-income people and too expensive overall for a GOP determined to slash federal spending that the ACA has required.

Those analysts have not had time to assess how this new configuration would affect federal spending or the number of people with insurance coverage.
And, of course, they still have no idea how much damage this will even cause, as for instance...

Quote:
In addition, it is unclear what the size of the tax credits will be compared to the ACA’s subsidies.

Meanwhile, the portion of the legislation drafted by the Energy and Commerce Committee would substantially redesign Medicaid in a way that attempts to balance the GOP’s antipathy for the ACA’s expansion of the program against the concerns of a significant cadre of Republican governors — and the senators from their states — who fear losing millions of dollars that the law has funneled to help insure low-income residents.

Under the bill, the government would continue for now the aspect of the ACA in which the federal government pays virtually the entire cost of covering people who have joined the Medicaid rolls because their states expanded their program.

Thirty-one states, plus the District of Columbia, have adopted that expansion. Starting in 2020, however, the GOP plan would restrict the government’s generous Medicaid payment — 90 percent of the cost of covering people in the expansion group — only to people who were in the program as of then. States would keep getting that amount of federal help for each of those people as long as they remained eligible, with the idea that most people on Medicaid drop off after a few years.

For the other 19 states that did not expand Medicaid, the legislation would provide $10 billion spread over five years. States could use that money to subsidize hospitals and other providers of care that treat many poor patients.
Quote:
Certain details of the new approach to tax credits remained unclear, including whether they would be restricted to people under a certain income threshold — perhaps $75,000, according to the House member briefed on the plan — or whether the subsidy would taper off after a specific income level but not end entirely. Two sources said age would remain one factor in determining the size of a person’s credit.

At the same time, the shift to take income into account could create a potentially difficult ripple effect for Republicans, who regard a reduction in the federal government’s role in health care as a central reason to abandon the sprawling 2010 health care law. One motivation for the GOP thinking that credits could depend only on age was that the Internal Revenue Service would no longer have needed to verify the eligibility of people for financial help, as it has for ACA subsidies. If income is taken into account, the IRS would still need to be involved.
This sounds chaotic and poorly planned even by regular republican standards.
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Old 03-07-2017, 04:32 AM
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It is what the people of the USA wanted; it is why they voted Republicans into power.
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Old 03-07-2017, 07:35 AM
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This sounds chaotic and poorly planned even by regular republican standards.
Isn't that the definition of the Trump administration?
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Old 03-07-2017, 04:53 PM
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Both Dems and the Conservative groups all despise this proposal and its considered DOA in the House...also, 4 GOP senators have already said they'd never vote for it so even if it magically cleared the house, that's 52 votes against it in the Senate.

7 years...you've had 7 years and this is the best you came up with, Speaker Ryan?
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Old 03-07-2017, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
Both Dems and the Conservative groups all despise this proposal and its considered DOA in the House...also, 4 GOP senators have already said they'd never vote for it so even if it magically cleared the house, that's 52 votes against it in the Senate.

7 years...you've had 7 years and this is the best you came up with, Speaker Ryan?
They never really wanted to have to do anything.

They all thought that Hillary would get elected. So they thought that they could vote through a repeal in the House, maybe even the Senate too, but with the assurance that it would just be empty rhetoric as they would have the safety net of Hillary's veto to save them. They just wanted to be able to tell their constituents that they were trying to kill it. Enough of them knew the real cost of repealing it, that it would mean throwing millions off of insurance, and that getting rid of the mandate would balloon costs. They're not all stupid.

But now they're stuck. They have no excuse for not doing what they promised their voters they would do, and they have a president that has cornered himself behind his own lies. The only thing saving them now is that finally some voters even on the right are starting to realize that the ACA and Obamacare are the same thing. Finally starting to realize that they might themselves be hurt by a repeal.

If they actually do it, it will almost certainly create so much chaos now that it will likely cost them the House in 2018, and likely the Senate and Presidency in 2020. Of course if they don't do it, they'll be primaried by candidates who are either crazier or dumber even than they are.

Mind you, at some point one would wish that voters would finally notice how awful every modern republican president has been (the only two halfway decent ones - Ford and the Elder Bush now basically are treated by their own side as dems in retrospect), and how every republican administration inevitably destroys the economy. Of course one would also wish that we would finally recognize what a waste of money wars and defense spending is, just tell the world that we don't give a f*ck how bad their ruler is, as that should be their problem, not ours, and cut defense spending by 2/3 and start spending all that money on universal healthcare and infrastructure like every other first world nation.

Unfortunately we have chained ourselves to our own version of Iran (i.e. the South), and until we finally divorce ourselves from Dixie, this country will always flirt with this nonsense.
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Old 03-07-2017, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
Both Dems and the Conservative groups all despise this proposal and its considered DOA in the House...also, 4 GOP senators have already said they'd never vote for it so even if it magically cleared the house, that's 52 votes against it in the Senate.

7 years...you've had 7 years and this is the best you came up with, Speaker Ryan?
More like 7 weeks...most of which have been spent in an existential crisis as they try to figure out just how exactly they won and dear god what are they going to do about Trump.

Did anyone post the VGCats comic in the other thread? It makes some sense...well, actually, the comic is probably wrong. Trump probably "knew" he'd win, (if he lost it'd have been someone else's fault), but it's everyone else that's "Oh, no, it worked". As Kimon said, the GOP never actually thought they'd take the White House and as such didn't have any idea as to what they were doing...because preparing in advance is studying or something and that's wrong.
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Old 03-08-2017, 03:09 PM
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Old 03-08-2017, 04:12 PM
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World's Greatest Healthcare Plan of 2017

Seriously, that's the official name of this DOA bill.

What a freaking clown show.

BTW, I just filed my taxes...my out of pocket medical expenses for 2016 were just over $6,000.00. That's out of pocket after my very good healthcare plan had already paid the large majority of the actual bill (for example, my wife had to go to the ER back in Sept and the total bill was over $15,000 of which we paid $700 or something like that).

Now, I will freely admit that my wife and I make a decent amount of money and that we were unable to deduct a single penny of that out of pocket expense unfortunately since you have to hit above 10% of your gross income to start deducting medical expenses...and I was able to pay it all. But I would imagine that my family is the exception to the rule given that we make roughly 4 times the national average for a U.S. family.

So...how in the FUCK would a family of 4 making around $55k (median household income in the US) be able to pay even that out of pocket level of expenses and I'm assuming their insurance plan options are nowhere near as good as my employer options of which I pay for the best plan.

So...the "just don't buy that fancy iPhone" comment is incredibly cruel and tone deaf...or about par for the average Republican politician. If they had my healthcare plan (not likely), they'd still have to buy at least 1 iPhone a month to pay just my out of pocket costs.

Who the hell buys 12 phones a year? I mean, WTF is wrong with people? This is why our country sucks.
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Old 03-08-2017, 04:24 PM
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World's Greatest Healthcare Plan of 2017

Seriously, that's the official name of this DOA bill.

What a freaking clown show.
Apparently Donald Trump did not pen that name. Which makes me wonder...is the Administration making fun of Donald Trump?
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Old 03-08-2017, 04:26 PM
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Apparently Donald Trump did not pen that name. Which makes me wonder...is the Administration making fun of Donald Trump?
The Most Bigly Extravagent Yugest Healthcare Plan Ever Made, Its Huge, Lots of Energy Health Care!!!
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Old 03-08-2017, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
World's Greatest Healthcare Plan of 2017

Seriously, that's the official name of this DOA bill.

What a freaking clown show.

BTW, I just filed my taxes...my out of pocket medical expenses for 2016 were just over $6,000.00. That's out of pocket after my very good healthcare plan had already paid the large majority of the actual bill (for example, my wife had to go to the ER back in Sept and the total bill was over $15,000 of which we paid $700 or something like that).

Now, I will freely admit that my wife and I make a decent amount of money and that we were unable to deduct a single penny of that out of pocket expense unfortunately since you have to hit above 10% of your gross income to start deducting medical expenses...and I was able to pay it all. But I would imagine that my family is the exception to the rule given that we make roughly 4 times the national average for a U.S. family.

So...how in the FUCK would a family of 4 making around $55k (median household income in the US) be able to pay even that out of pocket level of expenses and I'm assuming their insurance plan options are nowhere near as good as my employer options of which I pay for the best plan.

So...the "just don't buy that fancy iPhone" comment is incredibly cruel and tone deaf...or about par for the average Republican politician. If they had my healthcare plan (not likely), they'd still have to buy at least 1 iPhone a month to pay just my out of pocket costs.

Who the hell buys 12 phones a year? I mean, WTF is wrong with people? This is why our country sucks.
Part of our problem is the complete lack of uniformity of charges for similar services even just hospital to hospital. A couple of years ago I went to the ER for a kidney stone (hadn't even been completely sure at first what was wrong - was in a lot of pain on one side, and was puking a lot - but wasn't sure if it was appendix or kidney stone). So ER plus MRI, for which I think they "charged" my insurance $7000 (it might have been more, I'm mostly of the opinion that hospitals just make up that number on the invoice and then charge Blue Cross a minuscule part of that total), of which I paid $150.

Regardless of the fact that I obviously didn't pay anywhere near the imaginary number on their faux-invoice, there is no way that a trip to the ER and an MRI should cost anywhere near that amount. Until we stop doctors and hospitals from extorting whatever they want, the system will always be a disgrace compared to every other first world nation. The same is true of the pharmaceutical industry's ability to simply price-gouge the market as well. The assertion that they need those ludicrous prices, and need to keep generics out of circulation for the sake of financing research is transparently corrupt.

The only ones of us that should have an actual problem with Obamacare are those of us on the left. What we were stuck with was already the watered down profit friendly model which the republicans wanted. All they need to do is just the name. It already was a republican plan.

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Old 03-08-2017, 05:38 PM
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Well, iPhone is just ubiquitous. Really, it's any token luxury item. Granted, arguments could be made for how necessary having a smart phone is these days. Having access to e-mail, texts & similar in real time is pretty important. That said, the idea came from a few years back where an iPhone was a luxury item over a basic cell phone, and that's what's being picked on.

They want to get across this idea that those no good lazy (non-white) slobs are getting luxury items for free while hard working (white) Americans are working their hands to the bone and getting nothing. They love the rhetoric of "if they just stopped trying to rise above their place in life and accepted a more basic & austere/spartan life style they could have their health care" and similar bs.
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Old 03-08-2017, 09:13 PM
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Well, iPhone is just ubiquitous. Really, it's any token luxury item. Granted, arguments could be made for how necessary having a smart phone is these days. Having access to e-mail, texts & similar in real time is pretty important. That said, the idea came from a few years back where an iPhone was a luxury item over a basic cell phone, and that's what's being picked on.

They want to get across this idea that those no good lazy (non-white) slobs are getting luxury items for free while hard working (white) Americans are working their hands to the bone and getting nothing. They love the rhetoric of "if they just stopped trying to rise above their place in life and accepted a more basic & austere/spartan life style they could have their health care" and similar bs.
Oh, its 100% the same old 'welfare queen' myth that Reagan loved to use. Its all those damned lazy minorities and lazy poors who made their own bed.

Its amazing how many temporarily embarrassed soon to be millionaires we have in the USA who are just one scratch off away from being in the 1%.
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Old 03-23-2017, 03:39 PM
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And it's ded. Yay?
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Old 03-23-2017, 04:11 PM
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And it's ded. Yay?
I read that it was delayed because lack of votes. Which sounds like mostly dead...err ded. Mostly ded.
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Old 03-23-2017, 05:05 PM
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I read that it was delayed because lack of votes. Which sounds like mostly dead...err ded. Mostly ded.
It doesn't want to go on the cart...it feels happy!
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Old 03-23-2017, 05:05 PM
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I read that it was delayed because lack of votes. Which sounds like mostly dead...err ded. Mostly ded.
Seems like there may still be a vote tomorrow.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39375123

They're trying to entice enough Tea Party hold-outs by gutting what little is left in the package (they want to eliminate essential coverage provisions - i.e. allow for the sale of faux-insurance packages that offer no real coverage, so that you're paying a nominal fee just for the card, but pay massive premiums and deductibles if you ever actually need to use it). But bringing those anarchists back into the fold means sacrificing some of the "moderate" republicans. And that is just to try to get it through the House. This bill could never get through the Senate without revision to make it far more progressive. So even if this passes eventually in the House, it merely delays the larger problem of reconciling this with what would be possible to pass through the Senate.

Like much of what this administration has done, this is rushed, and chaotic. Not that this is surprising. The dems are good at writing laws, but bad at selling the message. Which makes sense - the dems are academics and lawyers. The republicans are good at sales (i.e. conning the public), but awful at governing and legislating. Not surprising, since the republicans are con men and shysters.
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Old 03-23-2017, 05:08 PM
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Its almost as if healthcare for a country of 330,000,000 people is an incredibly complex system that is amazingly difficult to manage.

Who knew???
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Old 03-23-2017, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimon View Post
Seems like there may still be a vote tomorrow.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39375123

They're trying to entice enough Tea Party hold-outs by gutting what little is left in the package (they want to eliminate essential coverage provisions - i.e. allow for the sale of faux-insurance packages that offer no real coverage, so that you're paying a nominal fee just for the card, but pay massive premiums and deductibles if you ever actually need to use it). But bringing those anarchists back into the fold means sacrificing some of the "moderate" republicans. And that is just to try to get it through the House. This bill could never get through the Senate without revision to make it far more progressive. So even if this passes eventually in the House, it merely delays the larger problem of reconciling this with what would be possible to pass through the Senate.

Like much of what this administration has done, this is rushed, and chaotic. Not that this is surprising. The dems are good at writing laws, but bad at selling the message. Which makes sense - the dems are academics and lawyers. The republicans are good at sales (i.e. conning the public), but awful at governing and legislating. Not surprising, since the republicans are con men and shysters.
The thing is, while this will always fail in the Senate due to the mishmash of priorities within the GOP, I'd rather see it fail in the House. Even this delay is great, and if it is a non-starter in the House, it severely weakens the GOP, introduces sharp wedges in their unity, and gived the Dems a nice little story of the impotency of the GOP.

So I hope the vote fails again.
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