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  #761  
Old 12-18-2017, 02:35 AM
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It's also possible that some of them were wilders and already knew a little when they joined, and perhaps that's the group Rand saw?
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  #762  
Old 12-18-2017, 04:38 AM
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Maybe, but all later accounts also suggest that the men start learning to do at least some things with the OP very soon after joining.
This, coupled with how quickly damane are expected to channel after being collared, suggests that if one pushes it, then it is indeed possible to begin pretty soon after passing a proper test. The Aiel too thought that it was possible to teach a lot quicker than AS do (TSR, Chapter 23, Beyond the Stone, "I have spoken with Aes Sedai. You coddle women in the Tower.").
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  #763  
Old 12-18-2017, 05:18 AM
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Maybe, but all later accounts also suggest that the men start learning to do at least some things with the OP very soon after joining.
This, coupled with how quickly damane are expected to channel after being collared, suggests that if one pushes it, then it is indeed possible to begin pretty soon after passing a proper test. The Aiel too thought that it was possible to teach a lot quicker than AS do (TSR, Chapter 23, Beyond the Stone, "I have spoken with Aes Sedai. You coddle women in the Tower.").
true. And then there's the bit about them doing everything, including small chores with the Power.
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  #764  
Old 12-23-2017, 07:08 AM
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Question Stilling and wells

Someone who is stilled can still sense the source, just not access it. Could they use a well? And can they still see/sense flows or see the glow of saidar around someone?
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  #765  
Old 12-23-2017, 12:01 PM
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Good questions. My guess is "no" to all of them, but I'm not actually sure that's accurate. Then I thought of using the WoT Companion, and that gave me absolutely no useful additional information on this subject at all.

Thus, depending on your inclinations, you can go with either "no" or "we don't know". I suppose we'll just have to try. Any volunteers?
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  #766  
Old 12-23-2017, 12:10 PM
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Good questions. My guess is "no" to all of them, but I'm not actually sure that's accurate. Then I thought of using the WoT Companion, and that gave me absolutely no useful additional information on this subject at all.

Thus, depending on your inclinations, you can go with either "no" or "we don't know". I suppose we'll just have to try. Any volunteers?
Wouldn't it seem logical that if the answer at least to the Well was a yes, that a stilled/gentled channeler could still be used, or even direct the flows, in a circle? That seems highly improbable. Now sensing that there was source material there to be accessed in the Well, that seems far more likely. As does the likelihood that a severed channeler might be able to sense the glow of saidar, and see the flows of a same gendered channeler. But have to think that their severing would make them unable to actually work the flows (and likewise make them useless in a circle).

As an aside, anyone else starting to feel that it is a bad sign that so much time has passed with no new info on a potential wot series. Seems like something should have leaked if anything actually was happening.
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  #767  
Old 12-23-2017, 12:28 PM
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Re-reading AMoL, how did Moridin manage to get to Lanfear in Finnland? The doorway in Tear would not take him to that location and the agreement was for the snake finns to give answers not give wishes.

The way Moggy thinks about it, it sounded like a routine event but dealing with the Finns seems to be anything but.

Or do you think he walked in and basically terrorised them into doing what he wanted. Maybe something like Mat's deal with the sea folk.
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  #768  
Old 12-23-2017, 12:53 PM
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Re-reading AMoL, how did Moridin manage to get to Lanfear in Finnland? The doorway in Tear would not take him to that location and the agreement was for the snake finns to give answers not give wishes.

The way Moggy thinks about it, it sounded like a routine event but dealing with the Finns seems to be anything but.

Or do you think he walked in and basically terrorised them into doing what he wanted. Maybe something like Mat's deal with the sea folk.
He could have entered directly via the Tower of Ghenjei, either in the real world or in Tel'aran'rhiod. He would have been negotiating from quite a bit more of a position of strength than did Mat and Thom, since he had access not just to iron and fire, but to saidin and TP.

I just figured he walked in, said give me that woman. You can eat her body, and some of her baseline saidar ability, I just need her soul. Resist and I start killing. Make me mad and I grab a few of you, and let Osan'gar and Semirhage do some fun experiments.
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  #769  
Old 12-24-2017, 03:23 AM
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Now that I think about it, the Finns might not have lied to Moiraine at all. Moridin didn't need to personally kill her.

As an aside, I wonder what questions Moridin asked these guys. Maybe not as Moridin but as Ishamael or Elan. Maybe it was some of the answers to his super philosophical questions that put him on the path to become the Betrayer.

Last edited by padfoot89; 12-24-2017 at 03:26 AM.
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  #770  
Old 12-24-2017, 04:58 AM
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I suspect that before the doorways were made, before the ToG was erected, there were already some contacts with the *finns. Those would have been totally unregulated (and hence very dangerous), but not impossible. All it takes is for Moridin to know how that was done and then duplicate it.
Maybe he went through Tel'aran'rhiod, or something like that.
Or he may have used the ToG, as Kimon says.
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  #771  
Old 01-29-2018, 04:16 PM
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What good did Moghedien do by accident according to Moridin?
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  #772  
Old 01-29-2018, 05:05 PM
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What good did Moghedien do by accident according to Moridin?
All three times Rand really snapped it was inadvertently due to Min.

-He was placed in the box (for extended time) after he went nuts when he realized that the Tower kidnappers had grabbed not just him, but also Min, and he killed a couple of Warders in his attempt to reach her.
-He went nuts again when he thought that he raped her, and stopped bathing and refused to leave his bedroom in Cairhien.
-And then he went nuts the third time when Moghedien put the a'dam on him, more specifically when she ordered him to strange Min.

That third was what Moridin was presumably referring to, the fact that she had almost completed, by accident, his descent to the Dark Side of the Force. As an aside, this also helps illustrate why Elayne and Aviendha were extraneous. Those two would have more aptly have ended up as part of Mat's harem of wives.
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  #773  
Old 01-30-2018, 01:46 AM
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Huh? Moghedien was not involved with Min and it was Semirhage that put the a'dam on Rand.
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  #774  
Old 01-30-2018, 04:16 AM
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It may be that Moridin credits Moghedien with the Seanchan getting the A'dam. That'd be a stretch, but I doubt Moghedien would be eager to debate the matter at that point.
Alternatively, it could refer to one of the plots she'd set in motion with her hijacked BA members.
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  #775  
Old 01-30-2018, 08:04 AM
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Huh? Moghedien was not involved with Min and it was Semirhage that put the a'dam on Rand.
Sorry. You're right, apparently it's been so long now since I've read the books that I conflated the two and was thinking of Rand's use of TP.
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  #776  
Old 01-30-2018, 08:57 AM
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What good did Moghedien do by accident according to Moridin?
Could be saving Rand from Rahvin.

RJ RAFO'd this, and I couldn't find it conclusively answered in the q&a database.
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